i wanna soup my computer up, help needed

[Rongi]

i have about 600 bucks and i wanna make my computer all supar good n shit. i want a new video card so i can hook up my other monitor and have DUAL MONITAR ACSHUN :O. i also wanna be able to play good looking games and not have it look like shit or be slow. so all you nerds out there, your assistance is needed

[ziggytrix]

what are you starting from?

[Rongi]

well i have an extremely crappy vid card according to chojin ( 32MB ATI Rage 128 Ultra ). i have a dell desktop. it's a dimension 4550

[ziggytrix]

ok, i'm basing my info off http://support.dell.com/support/edocs/systems/dim4550/specs.htm#1101572

memory is usually the worst choke point on most machine builds outta places like dell. if you've got less than 512MB of RAM, you should add some RAM.

dell's website says the 4550's only take up to 512MB DIMMS and you have two slots, so I'd get this (http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=20-141-434&depa=1) for 1GB total for $115 (cheap!).

you have WAY too many options on the video card, but an important question is do you see yourself moving this card to a new system in the future, or are you just trying the get another year outta this box?

personally, I'd prolly just get this (http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=14-102-352&depa=1) for under 200 bux, which was a high-end card once-upon-a-time. it's a toy, too, with support for dual-monitors, cable TV, and all that whack shit you get with ATI's AIW cards.

whatever you do, make sure you get a card that uses 4X AGP interface, cuz that's the max your current motherboard should be able to handle.

for anything more, you'd be better off throwing together a barebones system to just replace your current machine, but that could be a little more than 600 bucks, depending on the quality of your components.

[Rongi]

i think i've had this thing for about 2 or 3 years. it should prolly last me 3 or 4 more.

i only have 256mbs of ram :(

[ziggytrix]

also, if your current HDD is not an ATA-100, get one of those too. disk access time is a big bottleneck in gaming. there are faster drives out there, but your current mobo doesn't support them. it doesn't have to be huge capacity if you have room in your case and still keep your old drive. big cache and small seek times are what you need.

if you're thinking about overclocking your components you'll need to talk to someone else, cuz i don't do overclocking.

[Rongi]

i dont even know what overclocking means :tear

my current ata is a "intel 82801DB Ultra ATA Storage Controller - 24CD" where could i get an ata 100?

[ziggytrix]

hahah, that's funny. overclocking is where you change the voltage output of your mobo to make your processor run faster (and hotter) than factory spec. i think you're gonna fuck this up if you don't do some research or get someone to help you in person.

look at this selection of 7200RPM EIDE drives (http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduct.asp?submit=property&DEPA=1) - you can only use Ultra ATA100 or slower drives, so don't buy one of the 133s.

[felix_tibs]

If you are planning on SOUPing up your computer, I recommend a Santa Fe Chiocken soup. Also, Beef N Barley is tasty during the summer months.

Hope this helps(I know it didnt).

[Rongi]

ziggy, i have a hardware geek friend who kicks my ass in halo all the time so i'll consult him on all this junk :p

and felix, thank you for being generally useless

[executioneer]

lol i was gonna post a picture of campbells bean with bacon

[Rongi]

>:

[executioneer]

if it was me i'd start a new computer from scratch, but that's because i dont like out-of-the-box computers like dells or w/e v. much :(

-willie

[Rongi]

i dont know anyone who would make one for me :(

[executioneer]

you could pay the computor store to do it for you

[Rongi]

how much would they do it for

[executioneer]

idk like 50 an hour? or maybe less :/ i got my motherboard and processor installed but did the rest myself, because i had a bad experience with motherboards installs :x

[Rongi]

lol should i save up for an alienware computer

[executioneer]

idk ive never used one

[Rongi]

i just wanna be able to play good looking games without slow down and shit damnit :( :( :( like hl2

[Rongi]

http://www.newegg.com/app/viewproductdesc.asp?description=14-142-037&DEPA=1

is there anyway i could use that card on my machine? it sounds sexy as hell.

and ziggy, that link you gave me for ATA dun work :(

[ziggytrix]

it uses a PCI Express BUS interface (which is new) and your machine only supports AGP 2X/4X

with a new motherboard, it would be possible, but with a proprietary dell case, i'm not sure how easy it would be to put a new mobo in, and really if you're talking about replacing the motherboard, that prolly means the processor, and you've said you want a new video card, and you're gonna need more than 256MB ram... well hell, you've almost got a whole new computer right there.

sorry bout the busted link, try this (http://www.newegg.com/app/Viewproduct.asp?submit=property&catalog=14&propertycodevalue=3333,%200,%203755,%202960,%200&minprice=&maxprice=&mfrcode=0&DEPA=1&order=PRICE&srchFor=ATA100). That 120GB Seatgate with the 5 year warranty looks like a good deal to me, but you've got lots of options.

and damn this thread for making me realize how NOT up to date my box is :(

[Rongi]

i think i'll just stick with the radeon. a new motherboard would be a total hassle :/

ok so basically i need these three things...

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=14-102-352&depa=1

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=20-141-434&depa=1

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=22-144-129&depa=1

thnx so much ziggy :D

[whoreable]

for gaming i would recommend more than that aiw card. unless you plan on using the tv tuner and crap you can get another card that is much faster for the same price.

something like this would blow it away in games.

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=14-102-362&depa=1

one problem you might run into is power, this dimensions has a 250 watt poweruspply. it might not be enough for a new card.

If you wannt do the motherboard proc replacement you are better off getting a new system. cases are so cheap these days.

You might also want to check more of your system specs here http://support.dell.com/support/topics/global.aspx/support/my_systems_info/en/details?c=us&cs=04&l=en&s=bsd&~ck=mn&~tab=3

This system originally came with a wide variety of processors that range alot in terms of speed.

[executioneer]

he's got the 2.0 gig one fyi

[executioneer]

oh and he can't use that video card b/c his motherboard only goes up to 4x and that's a 8 :(

[Rongi]

:(

[executioneer]

oh wait in the description it looks like you CAN use it wit a 4x :/

[Alive]

Yeah it should step down to 4x. most are backwards compatable like certain ram is. building your own is usualy your best bet for getting more out of it. i go to the monthly computer show in my area and im always picking up killer deals. 600 bucks spent in the right place can yeild one kick ass system. nothing like what you would get out of the box. dont pay nobody 50/hr. building computers is easy and fun. then you can start charging 50/hr. (or more :rock )

[executioneer]

but what if the power supply explodes and you ruin your cousins brand new motherboard and processor and video card

[ziggytrix]

for gaming i would recommend more than that aiw card. unless you plan on using the tv tuner and crap you can get another card that is much faster for the same price.

something like this would blow it away in games.

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=14-102-362&depa=1


There's a few problems. He won't be able to fully utilize the card since, as Willie mentioned, he's only got a 4X AGP slot. Second, the core speed on the Sapphire is about 140MHz slower. Third, I don't see anything that indicates dual head support on there, but then again, I'm not sure how important using two monitors was to Rongi.

[MetalMilitia]

He won't be able to fully utilize the card since, as Willie mentioned, he's only got a 4X AGP slot.

The difference between AGP 4X and 8X is marginal at best. A 9800 would have almost exactly the same performance on a 4X slot compared to 8X.

Second, the core speed on the Sapphire is about 140MHz slower.

uhh, slower than what? That card has the standard 9800pro core and memory frequencies and the 256bit memory interface (as opposed to some saphire cards which only have a 128bit interface).


Third, I don't see anything that indicates dual head support on there

Well you can actually see on the card the other monitor plug. To use two monitors you simply plug an adaptor into the DVI port on the card and it converts it to a standard monitor connection.

I have almost exactly the same card (but made by Connect3D) and would highly recomend it.

[whoreable]

I agree. The only thing I would be concerned about is how much power the 9800 takes, then again changing out a power supply is quick and easy!

[ArrowX]

What Processor are you Running?

I have an overclocked PII i should really look into updaterin :(
20BG HDD
56xMAX cd drive (I shit you not)
I don't quite remember the make but it runs on the Ragefury pro chipset.

If I had a time machine my comp would be god :)

[ziggytrix]

Second, the core speed on the Sapphire is about 140MHz slower.

uhh, slower than what? That card has the standard 9800pro core and memory frequencies and the 256bit memory interface (as opposed to some saphire cards which only have a 128bit interface).


Chipset/Core Speed: ATI RADEON 9800 PRO/380MHz
vs.
Chipset/Core Speed: ATI RADEON 9600XT/525MHz

That's the GPU clock speed.

But I don't know enough about graphics to say that this clock speed really matters. I'm glad you pointed out the difference in memory buses tho. The 9600 only has a 128 bit memory bus, so if I understand correctly, it can process 128 bits faster than the 9800 can process 256 bits. Since it's not at least twice as fast, then the 9800 actually has the higher throughput by a little bit.

Third, I don't see anything that indicates dual head support on there

Well you can actually see on the card the other monitor plug. To use two monitors you simply plug an adaptor into the DVI port on the card and it converts it to a standard monitor connection.

I have almost exactly the same card (but made by Connect3D) and would highly recomend it.

Yeah, but will that enable multiple desktops or just the same output on two screens? I'm glad someone else is weighing in on this though cuz my knowledge of hardware is certainly not expert level. :(

Also, I don't know enough about the brands, but getting an actual ATI card vs. a knock-off makes a difference. I know I haven't been thrilled with my Chaintech card, and wish I'd spend the 40 extra bucks to get a more recognized brand. If Saphire has a good rep tho, I'd prolly change my recommendation to that.

[Rongi]

great now i dont know WHAT to get :(

i wont cry over not being able to do dual monitors. it's more of luxory than a neccesity to me.

[ziggytrix]

Well, MM has a dual monitor setup, and says he has basically the same card, so I'd trust him if he said it works, you'll just have to buy a little adaptor (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B000067SOH/ref%3Dpd%5Fsl%5Faw%5Falx-jeb-7-1%5Fce%5F3034748%5F4/103-7689704-4440651) for your second monitor, assuming it uses a "regular" monitor cable.

[MetalMilitia]

The card will almost certainly come with an adaptor.

When comparing a 9800pro VS 9600XT there is really no contest...

http://www.guru3d.com/article/content/117/8/

Lots of benchmarks to be seen there and all show more or less the same thing; 9800pro >= 9600XT.

As for the made my ATI vs 3rd part manufacturers there is really no difference. The cards are always essentially the same but often have varying cooling solutions. Sometimes 3rd party manufacturers provide a better HSF but its always good to read a review first and make sure that its not worse than the default one.

Some companies such as Gainward provide additonal functionality in their cards, for example they marketed a watercooled 5900U a while ago.
Their cards commonly have higher clocked memory/core but at a slightly higher price point.

[ziggytrix]

I'll respectfully disagree with the name brand vs generic argument, but I can't really prove that they're using cheaper RAM modules or whatever.

[whoreable]

some third party cards do use slower memory and some 9800s have the 128bit bus instead of 256. As long as the speeds are the same as the retail you should face too many issues.

Generally the thrid party cards are just as good- all things being equal of course.