So, boxing.

[Guitar Woman]

I'm cutting my teeth on boxing with the current run I guess you'd call it since about last month. I saw Angulo vs. Cintron, Urango vs. Berto, and just now caught Cotto vs. Clottey; all of these were Welterweight fights, which, for the uninformed, is below middleweight and above like 4 other weight classes. Basically it's guys who are between 140 and 147 pounds.

The first two were good, albiet one-sided fights, and the way all the fighters got off with nothing worse than a pinprick above an eyelid or a shiner lulled me into a false sense of security for Cotto vs. Clottey last night, which was brutal and a great fucking fight.

All 12 rounds are up on YouTube, but if you get HBO I'd reccommend getting it from OnDemand so it's not split up and gay.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDpZE9OL7vw&feature=related

Clottey was my pony from about round 3 when he split Cotto's head open, but I definitely agree with Cotto winning. Anyone who can last that long against as good a fighter as Clottey with a fucking vagina carved into his face and only one functional eye, while managing to still win a few rounds, is a damned hard bastard.

Clottey getting slammed into the canvas looked pretty painful. When he didn't get up for about 20 seconds I thought he was going to throw in the towel.

[Pentegarn]

I am waiting for Paquiao vs. Mayweather

[sspadowsky]

Boxing has become almost unwatchable since the rise of MMA.

[Tadao]

Are you saying that MMA is better to watch or that MMA has influenced boxing. I prefer a boxing match or a traditional martial art bout to any MMA bullshit anytime.

[sspadowsky]

I think MMA is better to watch. It doesn't appear to be rife with corruption like the boxing world, and the fights are much more brutal. I like watching fights for knockouts, and they're much more frequent in MMA.

If they made boxers continue until someone got knocked out, I would probably dig it more. If you're going to enjoy people beating each other up, I wanna see 'em go the whole nine.

[Tadao]

Yeah, the corruption really fucked up the sport :tear

I like watching for those rare graceful moments. I don't get that same feeling with MMA.

[Tadao]

Then again, there are no more Sugar Ray's.

[Pentegarn]

I am waiting for Paquiao vs. Mayweather

I may just get my wish

http://sports.yahoo.com/box/news?slug=dw-pacfloyd111509&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

“Richard told me point blank, Bob Arum will be getting that call Monday,” Greenberg said. “He plans on meeting next week with Bob to make the Mayweather fight.”

God I hope so, I haven't wanted to watch a boxing match in a loooooong time, but I would watch this one without hesitation

[Guitar Woman]

I stopped watching boxing a while ago because HBO only shows it every 5 months or something, and when I hear about a fight and mark it on my calender I usually just forget about it, or something comes up the day it's broadcast. :/

I do like it, though.

[Pentegarn]

Sadly, I think boxing is officially dead since Pacquiao and Mayweather couldn't get their shit together and egos in check. This fight would have saved boxing, the flip side however is if you can't get the greatest fight since the Thrilla in Manilla done, you may as well pack it in because nobody will want to watch after such a failure.

[MattJack]

Boxing needs a giant purge.

I have a feeling that boxing will be on its last breath during its final hour when true boxing enthusiasts/promoters/fans/athletes will save it. They'll put on competitive fights to prove who indeed is the better man, the judging will be regulated more and held accountable for their decisions, greedy promoters will get chased off, all three million of boxing's belts will be unified into one or two leagues, there won't be 50 divisions, and the ancient art of boxing will again hold some type of weight or honor to those who train in it.

:lolJust joking, boxing is fuc*ed :lol

[Angryhydralisk]

Yeah, the corruption really fucked up the sport :tear

I like watching for those rare graceful moments. I don't get that same feeling with MMA.

MMA isn't immune to controversy either. Brock Lesnar getting the title in his 4th fight and the Machida vs. Rua fight. Rampage vs. Rashad.

I was looking forward to Pacquiao Vs. Mayweather, just to see Mayweather get knocked out. He's a good boxer, but a spoiled bitch. Especially when he beat Marquez, got called out by SHane Mosley, and then was booed out of the building despite being the WINNER. What killed me the most is he's the challenger going in and making all the demands.

Lastly, I did see Friday Night Fights on ESPN the other night and the main event did look fixed. Guy gets his ass kicked, then busts the other guy open and nicks him on the chin, ensuing a knockout. Kind of laughable really. It's a struggling sport, but IMO if it was DEAD, there would be no boxing at all. No promotions, no matches, NOTHING.

[Pentegarn]

Well total nothingness is not required for something to be dead. After all disco is dead and yet the Bee Gees still make albums

[kahljorn]

Lastly, I did see Friday Night Fights on ESPN the other night and the main event did look fixed. Guy gets his ass kicked, then busts the other guy open and nicks him on the chin, ensuing a knockout. Kind of laughable really.

I'm kind of ignorant about boxing and all these things you guys talk about but a nick to the chin is all it really takes :(

[Darryl]

in real life, there aren't health bars.
you just need to cause enough trauma to the brain/brain stem to cause the knockout.

http://games.softpedia.com/screenshots/1-4001_2.png

[Angryhydralisk]

Well total nothingness is not required for something to be dead. After all disco is dead and yet the Bee Gees still make albums

Up until 2001, anyways. :lol

I hear Ricky Hatton wants to do another fight.

[Geggy]

http://jr3134.k12.sd.us/Year/buster-douglas-mike-tyson-knockout.jpg

February 11, 1990, exactly 20 years ago yesterday. I watched it recorded on VHS on the day after... 20 years ago today. Those were the days when boxing was actually fun to watch.

[Pentegarn]

Imma disagree with you. That match was fun to watch, but before that Tyson matches were, if you recall, 90 second wastes of 50 bucks. The middleweight division was somewhat entertaining in those days though. And Foreman coming out of retirement was watchable, but it was no Ali-Frasier era. :(

[Angryhydralisk]

Watched PTI interviewing Mayweather about the upcoming fight. The highlight to me was at the very end.

"Floyd....say PAcquiao."

"...

...Mosley."

[TheCoolinator]

Are you saying that MMA is better to watch or that MMA has influenced boxing. I prefer a boxing match or a traditional martial art bout to any MMA bullshit anytime.

I absolutely agree,

Boxing and other traditional martial arts competitions put the sloppy gladiatorial-esq MMA to shame.

I think the whole MMA craze is because it makes men feel macho and gives them the pseudo-sensation of being a rebel for watching something they aren't supposed.

[MattJack]

Boxing and other traditional martial arts competitions put the sloppy gladiatorial-esq MMA to shame.

I think the whole MMA craze is because it makes men feel macho and gives them the pseudo-sensation of being a rebel for watching something they aren't supposed.

So having two men stand in a ring and forcing them to hit each other in the face for 30+ minutes or until one KOs the other is OK, but if they can use their feet or a submission then it's "gladitorial?" :lol

What is sloppy? Sure their boxing striking isn't on an elite boxing level, but that's because they have to be well rounded, so they have other things to worry about besides somebody only throwing punches at them.

I think the whole "MMA craze" is because it's a new exciting sport. How or why would anybody feel like a rebel for watching something that comes on CBS?

[TheCoolinator]

So having two men stand in a ring and forcing them to hit each other in the face for 30+ minutes or until one KOs the other is OK, but if they can use their feet or a submission then it's "gladiatorial?"

1. No one is forcing anyone to hit one another.

2. Amateur boxers wear head protectors and more padded gloves then professional boxers. Professional boxers wear less padded gloves but still wear gloves nonetheless with their laces taped to provide more protection to the other fighter. On top of that they have very well trained referees that observe both fighters and immediately step in if the fighter cannot continue.

MMA fighters do not wear padded gloves. They wear something akin to leather straps with less then an inch of padding. The only time an MMA referee steps in is when the other opponent is close to death by choking, their limbs are about to break, or their heads are being elbowed and bashed with bare fists as they lay their unconscious.



3. Choking, arm breaking, foot stomping, and hitting someone mercilessly on the ground is barbaric on many levels and can be defined as "Gladiatorial". Especially when they have these fights in cages......


What is sloppy? Sure their boxing striking isn't on an elite boxing level, but that's because they have to be well rounded, so they have other things to worry about besides somebody only throwing punches at them.

Their boxing striking isn't even close to amateur in some of the events I've witnessed. Especially when they are in the upright position. It's all sloppy shoot fighting bar room brawl back yard mess. Anyone who watches it and says that there is an inkling of finesse is really pushing it. They might as well be in thunder dome.

I think the whole "MMA craze" is because it's a new exciting sport. How or why would anybody feel like a rebel for watching something that comes on CBS?

New and exciting sport? This junk has been around for a very long time and I may add was illegal before numerous states men saw that they can tax the crap out of it and it will bring in untold amounts of revenue into their districts. At the expense of morality but whose counting right?

Oh, and ask every person who watches MMA. They know nothing about martial arts at all; all they care about is feeling tough when some poor idiot is getting his head split open in front of a semi-intoxicated audience.

It's sad.

[kahljorn]

It's all sloppy shoot fighting bar room brawl back yard mess

REMEMBER thE GREATEST BOXER OF ALL TIME ROCKY WAS A STREET FIGHTER

[MattJack]

1. No one is forcing anyone to hit one another.


SEMANTIX. Of course nobody is "forcing" anybody to do anything, but you have to hit another man in the face over and over again in order to win the contest. :lol udum


2. Amateur boxers wear head protectors and more padded gloves then professional boxers. Professional boxers wear less padded gloves but still wear gloves nonetheless with their laces taped to provide more protection to the other fighter. On top of that they have very well trained referees that observe both fighters and immediately step in if the fighter cannot continue.

Did you know that bare knuckle boxing is safer than boxing with 12-16oz gloves? Did you know that it is due to the larger glove size that people have a greater chance of suffering long term repercussion? There would be more broken hands, but less blunt trauma to the head. The boxing gloves argument is a really bad one to use if you're gonna throw safety out there. Udum.

As for the point about refs.. I'm sure there are many good refs, but they don't work for boxing, they work for the athletic commission. We aren't talking about the refs or athletic commission.

I'd say the judging in boxing is far, far worse than in MMA. I've seen three blatantly thrown fights on ESPN and HBO. Blatantly thrown. Even the in house announcers knew it. Udum.

MMA fighters do not wear padded gloves. They wear something akin to leather straps with less then an inch of padding.

Once again, smaller gloves or no gloves at all is the best way to have a combat sport. Yes, hands will be broken, but you won't have long lasting head trauma. You can be a retard for the rest of your life(see Ali), and I'll stick with the arthritis. Udum


The only time an MMA referee steps in is when the other opponent is close to death by choking, their limbs are about to break, or their heads are being elbowed and bashed with bare fists as they lay their unconscious.
You obviously don't watch any MMA. A lot of fights are stopped early because the ref deems it a TKO or the lesser fighter isn't protecting himself. Next, the fighters TAP OUT when they are done fighting, generally speaking. If one doesn't tap(which is a very stupid thing that only a fraction of fighters have ever done) then the ref steps in.

Once again, you obviously don't watch much MMA. udum


3. Choking, arm breaking, foot stomping, and hitting someone mercilessly on the ground is barbaric on many levels and can be defined as "Gladiatorial". Especially when they have these fights in cages......

Chokes and locks are essential to most TRADITIONAL MARTIAL ARTS. These guys use their knowledge of judo, juijitsu, sambo, greco roman wrestling, traditional american wrestleing, etc. to defeat an opponent. It's funny because when MMA first started all these huge guys who use to box and bar fight thought they were going to destroy people with their hands. Funny story, a little 160lb man named Royce Gracie came in and nullified their attacks by using MARTIAL ARTS. He made them tap or put them to sleep. Nothing got hurt besides some egos/feelings. It's a combat sport. udum

Foot stomping doesn't exist in the USA. You cannot soccer kick a downed opponent without harsh consequences. Sorry, you lose.

What is the difference between hitting somebody mercilessly on the ground or mercilessly standing up? You generally hit people without mercy in any combat sport. Don't follow. udum

As for fighting in cages, does it really matter what they fight in? Japan uses a traditional boxing ring in most of their MMA promotions. That nullifies that point. Udum

Their boxing striking isn't even close to amateur in some of the events I've witnessed. Especially when they are in the upright position. It's all sloppy shoot fighting bar room brawl back yard mess. Anyone who watches it and says that there is an inkling of finesse is really pushing it. They might as well be in thunder dome.
They aren't boxers. I'm not claiming that they have an elite traditional western boxing calliber pedegree, but to say that they are "sloppy shoot fighting bar room" brawlers is completely laughable.

Have you heard of Muay Thai? How about kick boxing? MMA fighters generally choose these two because it better suits their sport. Traditional western style boxing is very limiting. It serves its purpose for a boxing event, but has great limitations to real world scenarios or MMA matches. Put a kick boxer and a boxer against each other in an MMA fight and i'll choose the kick boxer everytime.

Udum.

New and exciting sport? This junk has been around for a very long time and I may add was illegal before numerous states men saw that they can tax the crap out of it and it will bring in untold amounts of revenue into their districts. At the expense of morality but whose counting right?

Oh, and ask every person who watches MMA. They know nothing about martial arts at all; all they care about is feeling tough when some poor idiot is getting his head split open in front of a semi-intoxicated audience.

It's sad.

And finally here is where we get to the real heart of your lame post. A lot of things use to be illegal before they became legal. Marrying outside of your race, sodomy, alcohol, etc. so don't give me some American morality arguement.

UDUM. JOHN MCCAIN(a politician who works for a state)was the one who led the crusade against MMA in the early 1990s. This KILLS your "numerous states men saw that they can tax the crap out of it and it will bring in untold amounts of revenue into their districts" shi*. It is still illegal in many states because of backwards idiots like yourself, and it has nothing to do with tax money. UDUM

I don't know who you've been talking to about MMA, but COOL STORY BRO. ANECDOTAL EVIDENCE FTW.

Ask anybody about boxing to see how much they really know about it. Do they understand boxing styles, the intricacies that come with those styles, why some fighters fight in a straight line, why some are unorthodox, what is unorthodox, or why a counter to the body after a left hook is thrown is a good idea?

Probably not.

Don't give me this ol' bullshi*. People watch things mostly because they are entertained by it and not because they fully understand it. I like to watch women jump rope in the rain while they're in their underwear. I don't understand it for the life of me, but god damn I can't get enough of it.

To add to that point just take a look at the NFL for Christ's sake. Most people don't know what's going on behind all the play calling, audibles, or techniques the players use, but they just know that at the end of the day one team has to have a higher score. Does that make the NFL some backwards redneck shi*? No. Are some of the fans backwards rednecks? Yes.

Fact is boxing is dying due to bad business practices, back room deals, promoters running the show, and 9865234 million titles that nobody gives a s*it about. Boxing use to be something really cool, I get it. Problem is that too many things have ruined it and now it's people like you who are simply butthurt that it's getting eaten alive by MMA. Instead of saying, "Hey I'm really jealous that MMA is doing so well. I wish boxing were doing better." You spew out stupid shi* that not only doesn't make sense, but it also makes you look like a complete non-thinking neanderthal, which is ironic because that is the very thing you try to paint MMA and it's fanbase as.

UDUM.

[Sam]

mmmmyyyyyyy nnn*gggggggggggaaaaa

[Pentegarn]

Imma step in and declare MattJack the winner because the damage is too excessive :lol

On a more serious note though, many of my old coworkers were training for MMA on a local level basis. I learned a lot about it. Like the importance of style diversification, that the better MMA participants spend equal time on striking and submission, and that most MMA participants dislike or don't respect Kimbo Slice. Coolinator, you aren't making any point about MMA that wasn't made about boxing repeatedly over the past 100 years. The difference is MMA has come farther faster than boxing for a myriad of reasons.

1) Regarding safety: As MattJack pointed out, MMA is all about calling a match if it even looks close to a danger for a fighter. But going even further, when MMA started, it was literally mixed, as opposed to a fighter knowing a mix of styles like today. Back in its infancy, UFC would pit a kickboxer against a sumo wrestler. They have since realized doing that sort of "is kung fu better than brazilian fighting" spectacle is unsafe. It took them less than 2 decades to get to the point that they are safer than boxing. (MMA has never had a fatality in the ring)

2) They flat out have better cards: That's right, MMA gets it done when the fans want a specific match. None of this "if you don't get a blood test from a needle that I know you won't do due to your phobia of needles, I won't fight you" crap. In the history of MMA I have only seen one fight the fans wanted that was unable to be put together. Can Boxing say that? It takes years to get a De La Hoya vs. Mayweather fight. It takes weeks to get a Lesner vs. Mir fight. Which brings us to...

3) MMA has a severe lack of promoters mucking up the matches. While Boxing has Don King. (I think that is all that needs to be said about that)

Boxing had its chance to reestablish itself with a Paquio vs. Mayweather fight, and they couldn't even pull that off. Boxing is dying on the vine. MMA is surpassing it because it is everything boxing used to be.

[TheCoolinator]

SEMANTIX. Of course nobody is "forcing" anybody to do anything, but you have to hit another man in the face over and over again in order to win the contest.


Yes, but they don't hit each other just for the KO. There is a point system based on hit ratio and where the strike lands. I don't know how they score MMA but I believe the match is over when one of the fighters is holding the head and spinal cord of his defeated opponent.



I'd say the judging in boxing is far, far worse than in MMA. I've seen three blatantly thrown fights on ESPN and HBO. Blatantly thrown. Even the in house announcers knew it.

The throwing fights debate is irrelevant to the conversation. We are discussing how MMA is a sloppy step back in the history of human civilization. Putting two grown men in a cage and having a contest where they choke, knee, stomp, bash, and attempt to break each others limbs is devolution in my honest opinion.......



You obviously don't watch any MMA. A lot of fights are stopped early because the ref deems it a TKO or the lesser fighter isn't protecting himself. Next, the fighters TAP OUT when they are done fighting, generally speaking. If one doesn't tap(which is a very stupid thing that only a fraction of fighters have ever done) then the ref steps in.



lol, I'm going to ignore the whole "Obviously" comment. I once new a guy who started all of his debates with "you obviously don't know this...or that..." I would usually say back to him "you obviously don't know how to communicate like an adult"

The fighter isn't protecting himself? Is it because he's getting beaten on the ground or has slipped unconscious from lack of oxygen to the brain? Is the fighter tapping out because he's in pain or is in fear of serious injury? Boxers do not have to "tap out". If the referee sees a boxer on the ropes then the fight is over. It doesn't have to get to the point of almost getting seriously injured.


Chokes and locks are essential to most TRADITIONAL MARTIAL ARTS. These guys use their knowledge of judo, juijitsu, sambo, greco roman wrestling, traditional american wrestleing, etc. to defeat an opponent.

I've never seen any of these fighting styles used in the cage....ever....

All they do is wildly swing at each other, try to choke them, or try to break an arm. The fights are boring and have no class, style, or skill. Anyone who has two brain cells to rub together can be an MMA fighter.....get on top and punch or get behind and choke.


Foot stomping doesn't exist in the USA. You cannot soccer kick a downed opponent without harsh consequences.

I've see an a fighter stomp the feet of his opponents numerous times. It's allowed. What MMA are you watching?


What is the difference between hitting somebody mercilessly on the ground or mercilessly standing up? You generally hit people without mercy in any combat sport. Don't follow.

I guess there is no difference then. Hmmm....(rolls eyes)




They aren't boxers. I'm not claiming that they have an elite traditional western boxing calliber pedegree, but to say that they are "sloppy shoot fighting bar room" brawlers is completely laughable.

When you say "laughable" do you mean true? Because this gigantic post you just vomited out really doesn't help your argument. It's actually helping me.......

I think the whole "What’s the difference between bashing someone half to death on the ground" just proved my point completely.

Have you heard of Muay Thai? How about kick boxing? MMA fighters generally choose these two because it better suits their sport. Traditional western style boxing is very limiting. It serves its purpose for a boxing event, but has great limitations to real world scenarios or MMA matches. Put a kick boxer and a boxer against each other in an MMA fight and i'll choose the kick boxer everytime.

I think this whole fantasy that MMA fans are living in is kind of silly to be honest. These fighters DO NOT USE MARTIAL ARTS. All they do is sloppily punch with haymakers, knee, kick thighs, choke, and attempt to break arms.

I've never seen any kind of bruce lee-ish fighters enter the ring. It looks like 2 guys who had too many drinks and are fighting over a girl in the corner of the bar.





And finally here is where we get to the real heart of your lame post. A lot of things use to be illegal before they became legal.

Those examples you gave are irrelevant. This was illegal because it was a blood sport not because it was being persecuted because of race or identity.

JOHN MCCAIN(a politician who works for a state)

For once John McCain was right. He called it "HUMAN COCK FIGHTING" and I have to agree with him. Its a messy sport with no skill that runs strictly on testosterone and ignorance.

Fact is boxing is dying due to bad business practices,

I'm noticing that you keep bringing up boxing’s bad business practices which I do not deny. Problem is its irrelevant to the conversation. The facts being that MMA is a uncivilized neo-gladiatorial event that has captivated and duped most young men into idolizing it and or using the half-cavemen they throw into a cage to fight as role models.

Boxing is not only much safer then MMA but REQUIRES SKILL also the bout is conducted in a very orderly way. Unlike MMA.

Just the name MMA (Mixed martial arts) is a falsehood. They don't use a mix of anything. Like I stated over and over again its a very amateurish and barbaric contest that we as humans should have shunned away from a few thousands years ago. Boxing is the progress of that. The sport is still active but now there are more rules put in place to protect the fighters. MMA if you can even call it that is a big step back in terms of civilized combat.





On a more serious note though, many of my old coworkers were training for MMA on a local level basis. I learned a lot about it. Like the importance of style diversification, that the better MMA participants spend equal time on striking and submission, and that most MMA participants dislike or don't respect Kimbo Slice. Coolinator, you aren't making any point about MMA that wasn't made about boxing repeatedly over the past 100 years. The difference is MMA has come farther faster than boxing for a myriad of reasons.
Boxing is dying on the vine. MMA is surpassing it because it is everything boxing used to be.

Monkey see monkey do. As I just said, young people of all types are using this as a socially acceptable role model when in a normal society this would be an absolutely repugnant spectacle. MMA is more akin to an internet video of a car crash caught on tape. We like it because on a very primitive level we want to be the guy in the ring but on another primitive level we want to see the excitement of someone being pummeled, choked, or arm half broken.

Your right about the points I'm making regarding boxing. They have all been made before BUT boxing has been regulated again and again to protect the fighters. MMA has not. MMA is as its meant to be a neo-gladiatorial barbaric spectacle for a the masses. I don't watch it, I think my points are valid and appropriate, and I won't be paying money and time soon to see it or to take lessons on how to be a brute in a cage.

[Angryhydralisk]

This is hilarious. :lol

[Fathom Zero]

You guys're doing it wrong. >:

http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/8923/bg29d.jpg

http://img693.imageshack.us/img693/5301/bg24.jpg

[MattJack]

Yes, but they don't hit each other just for the KO. There is a point system based on hit ratio and where the strike lands. I don't know how they score MMA but I believe the match is over when one of the fighters is holding the head and spinal cord of his defeated opponent.
:lol

They have a point system. Most fights across every promotion goes 3-5 rounds, so if nobody gets KTFO'd then they have to go to a decision. The point system is based off of a mix strikes thrown, landed, take downs, sub attempts, ring control, and a few other things.

UDUM

The throwing fights debate is irrelevant to the conversation. We are discussing how MMA is a sloppy step back in the history of human civilization. Putting two grown men in a cage and having a contest where they choke, knee, stomp, bash, and attempt to break each others limbs is devolution in my honest opinion.......
Throwing fights aside, how is it backwards in the history of human civilization? They aren't fighting for blood or their lives, so don't try to equate this to some Rome gladiator bullshi* you saw with Russell Crowe. It is a test of wills and techniques.

It is just so ironic that you find it OK for two guys to beat the hell out of each others' skulls until one goes unconscious, but submissions and kicking is completely out of the question.

UDUM

lol, I'm going to ignore the whole "Obviously" comment. I once new a guy who started all of his debates with "you obviously don't know this...or that..." I would usually say back to him "you obviously don't know how to communicate like an adult"
COOL STORY BRO. Didn't know "obviously" wasn't communicating like an adult. Maybe I'll just be more direct and tell you how foolish you look when you don't know what the hell your talking about.

Let's try: You apparently haven't a clue what really goes on in MMA, but this is probably due to your lack of education, or possibly even a lack of motivation to go out and read a little bit of literature on the matter at hand. Go read a book.

The fighter isn't protecting himself? Is it because he's getting beaten on the ground or has slipped unconscious from lack of oxygen to the brain?
Yes, the fighter isn't protecting himself. Much like in boxing, if the fight is so one sided that there isn't a contest the fight will be called. It doesn't mean he is KO'd. Lack of oxygen to the brain? I'm started to believe you have a lack of oxygen in your brain when you rattle off this kind of shi*.

Is the fighter tapping out because he's in pain or is in fear of serious injury? Boxers do not have to "tap out".
Yes. It is a submission. Think of it at a 'gotcha' move. All you do is tap or risk injury. Why is OK to have this in strict martial arts matches, but not in mixed martial arts? Is it the gui? I don't understand.

Boxers have NO NEED TO TAP. You can't be serious with this. They just have to pummel the other man into either submission(throwing in the towel) or until he goes dead to the world.

UDUM
If the referee sees a boxer on the ropes then the fight is over. It doesn't have to get to the point of almost getting seriously injured.
:lol
Boxers have DIED in the ring. Nobody has died from MMA. If the referee sees a boxer on the ropes then the fight is over? Yeah, go tell George Foreman that then. Ali only LAID on the ropes for round after round during their historic Rumble in the Jungle. Rope a dope.

UDUM

I've never seen any of these fighting styles used in the cage....ever....

All they do is wildly swing at each other, try to choke them, or try to break an arm. The fights are boring and have no class, style, or skill. Anyone who has two brain cells to rub together can be an MMA fighter.....get on top and punch or get behind and choke.
This is because you are ignorant. You have no understanding of what is going on, so therefor it must be some grown ass men wrastlin' for male supremecy.

You are entitled to think they are boring fights, but to say that there isn't any skill in an MMA fighter only reaffirms that you have a serious case of The Dumbass. Most of the fighters are well versed in two to three martial arts.

UDUM
I've see an a fighter stomp the feet of his opponents numerous times. It's allowed. What MMA are you watching? I guess there is no difference then. Hmmm....(rolls eyes)
My fault. I thought you meant soccer kicks to the head.

:lol Stomping somebody's foot is barbaric, but hitting them in the face with 1lb gloves is OK :lol

Yes, there is a difference. One might break your foot and the other might break your brain. I'll take my chances with getting stomped on my foot.

UDUM

When you say "laughable" do you mean true? Because this gigantic post you just vomited out really doesn't help your argument. It's actually helping me.......

I think the whole "What’s the difference between bashing someone half to death on the ground" just proved my point completely.
No, I was pointing out this thing called irony. Just admit that you are upset that your precious boxing is on life support.

I think this whole fantasy that MMA fans are living in is kind of silly to be honest. These fighters DO NOT USE MARTIAL ARTS. All they do is sloppily punch with haymakers, knee, kick thighs, choke, and attempt to break arms.
You're right. These guys just work on cars and hit women all day. They couldn't possibly be trained in multiple fighting arts. That is impossible.

I've never seen any kind of bruce lee-ish fighters enter the ring. It looks like 2 guys who had too many drinks and are fighting over a girl in the corner of the bar.
You are a fuckin* retard. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6D-_jAIvqs) Anybody can do a flying leg scissor into a heel hook. That's just some sloppy school yard shit we all did in 3rd grade.


Those examples you gave are irrelevant. This was illegal because it was a blood sport not because it was being persecuted because of race or identity.
Way to miss the point. I was simply saying that just because something is illegal doesn't make it right. The United States Supreme Court could make a decision that the sky is green tomorrow, so does that make it green? No, it just means that a government is full of shi*. The government has been wrong over and over, so the whole "morality" and "legality" argument means hot dic* to me.

For once John McCain was right. He called it "HUMAN COCK FIGHTING" and I have to agree with him. Its a messy sport with no skill that runs strictly on testosterone and ignorance.
Wasn't John McCain bombing Brown People in the 1960s from a plane in the sky? Killing hundreds if not thousands of people, OK. Blood in a combate sport, AWFUL.

JOHN MCCAIN: VOICE OF REASON 2012


I'm noticing that you keep bringing up boxing’s bad business practices which I do not deny. Problem is its irrelevant to the conversation. The facts being that MMA is a uncivilized neo-gladiatorial event that has captivated and duped most young men into idolizing it and or using the half-cavemen they throw into a cage to fight as role models.
You are such a parrot. This is the same thing you say over and over. How many times do I have to refute this mess?

Role models? STFU UDUMMMMMMMMMMM
Boxing is not only much safer then MMA but REQUIRES SKILL also the bout is conducted in a very orderly way. Unlike MMA.

Just the name MMA (Mixed martial arts) is a falsehood. They don't use a mix of anything. Like I stated over and over again its a very amateurish and barbaric contest that we as humans should have shunned away from a few thousands years ago. Boxing is the progress of that. The sport is still active but now there are more rules put in place to protect the fighters. MMA if you can even call it that is a big step back in terms of civilized combat.
YAWN

blah blah blah mma bloodsport blah blah blah boxing sacred blah blah blah role models blah blah blah decline of western civilization

UDUM

UMAD

UDUM

Ni*ga, go read a mother fuckin* book.

[TheCoolinator]

They have a point system. Most fights across every promotion goes 3-5 rounds, so if nobody gets KTFO'd then they have to go to a decision. The point system is based off of a mix strikes thrown, landed, take downs, sub attempts, ring control, and a few other things.

Interesting. I wonder how the judges make out what's going on in the unskilled mess that's proceeding before their eyes.


They aren't fighting for blood or their lives

I guess they are fighting for absolutely no reason at all which makes it useless as well as dangerous. Dangerous morally and physically I may be so bold to add.

It is just so ironic that you find it OK for two guys to beat the hell out of each others' skulls until one goes unconscious, but submissions and kicking is completely out of the question.

I would like to believe that the human race has gone beyond rolling around on the floor while beating / choking / limb breaking each other.



Yes, the fighter isn't protecting himself. Much like in boxing, if the fight is so one sided that there isn't a contest the fight will be called. It doesn't mean he is KO'd.

Are you trying to clean up the filthy MMA by comparing it to Boxing? "Much like Boxing" you say?

You cannot and I will repeat CANNOT compare MMA to boxing because the brutality of MMA is almost immeasurable. When a boxer is in distress the referee will put his arms around him and wave one of his hands in the air. It never gets to the point where the fighter is being beat over and over and over again on the ground NOR does it ever get to the point where a limb or an air way is constricted.

MMA is garbage. It's low brow fighting.


Yes. It is a submission. Think of it at a 'gotcha' move. All you do is tap or risk injury.

"Or risk injury"

Thank you

Boxers have NO NEED TO TAP. You can't be serious with this. They just have to pummel the other man into either submission(throwing in the towel) or until he goes dead to the world.

At any point in the boxing match any fighter can refuse to walk into the ring. There is no need for any "risk of injury" becayse they have the option of not proceeding into the middle of the ring.

I wonder what would happen if an MMA fighter would not walk into the ring? Maybe his career would be over because most of these MMA fighters are completely and utterly replaceable. I.E. No skill involved.



Boxers have DIED in the ring. Nobody has died from MMA. If the referee sees a boxer on the ropes then the fight is over?

I still haven't researched in to how many people have been hurt in MMA but yes, before boxing was regulated there were deaths. Hence why they regulated it.

I don't know if you know this but "Being on the ropes" is a term used to reference when a fighter is in trouble. It's just a phrase, it doesn't really mean that the person is on a rope of some sort.


This is because you are ignorant. You have no understanding of what is going on, so therefor it must be some grown ass men wrastlin' for male supremecy.

When you switched your vocabulary from "You obviously don't know this" to "you are ignorant" is that just a way you admit defeat?


Most of the fighters are well versed in two to three martial arts.

They may be well versed in ballet too but you don't see that when they step into the "cage". You see a mess of grabbing and large over the top swings that then culminate into a grab ass match on the ground which then leads to one choking the other. Boring. No skill. No martial arts. No nothing. Probably 3-4 moves get used in every single fight.


Stomping somebody's foot is barbaric, but hitting them in the face with 1lb gloves is OK

Stomping of the foot is just another reason why not to watch this unskilled mess.


Yes, there is a difference. One might break your foot and the other might break your brain. I'll take my chances with getting stomped on my foot.

Once again, Boxers are only allow to fight a certain number of matches. It's called a regulation. This is a collision sport. I wonder how many bouts an MMA fighter is allowed to have a year? and I wonder what's going to happen to their health? Both sports are dangerous but MMA is much more brutal and grissly on so many levels.


No, I was pointing out this thing called irony. Just admit that you are upset that your precious boxing is on life support.

I'm not a boxing fan, at all. I'm just saying between MMA (mess / no skill) and boxing (skill and stamina), boxing is better on so many levels.


Wasn't John McCain bombing Brown People in the 1960s from a plane in the sky? Killing hundreds if not thousands of people, OK. Blood in a combate sport, AWFUL.

I still agree with him when he called it "Human Cockfighting" because that's what it is. Hence why it was illegal and I believe it still is illegal in many states of the union.

In my profession usually bad things are regulated. MMA is one of them I guess.


Role models? STFU UDUMMMMMMMMMMM
.

Way to ignore my argument.

[Pentegarn]

Wow, I am losing track of what you are trying to say Colonator, you're all over the map. I am not even sure you know what you are trying to say.

Let's begin with this gem:

I don't know how they score MMA but I believe the match is over when one of the fighters is holding the head and spinal cord of his defeated opponent.

This makes me laugh for a few reasons. So when you watched the MMA match where this transpired, was there another match on the card with a centaur fighting a guy with four arms?

You get on MattJack when he says "you obviously don't know MMA". Here's the thing though. Statements like your quote show you obviously don't know MMA. Because a statement like that shows your obvious (apparent to all) ignorance of how MMA works. When you mistake watching someone play the game Mortal Kombat for an MMA match, that makes your lack of knowledge in MMA obvious. When you say, "I don't know how they score MMA" that also makes your lack of knowledge obvious. When you say:

I've never seen any of these fighting styles used in the cage....ever.....

You make your lack of MMA knowledge obvious.

If you think there is no jujitsu, traditional US wrestling, or grecko roman in MMA, you are watching something not MMA. Maybe it was an episode of the A Team. Maybe it was a documentary on mollusks. Maybe it was Man vs. Food. Maybe you were at Dave and Busters watching Mortal Kombat and mistook it for UFC 103. Whatever it was, it was clearly not MMA if you saw no jujitsu, traditional US wrestling, or grecko roman. Maybe you watched the Toughman Contest. That is closer to what you think MMA is.

I think this whole fantasy that MMA fans are living in is kind of silly to be honest. These fighters DO NOT USE MARTIAL ARTS. All they do is sloppily punch with haymakers, knee, kick thighs, choke, and attempt to break arms.

Your assertion that MMA does not actually use martial arts is laughable at best. If you are so sure of that belief, I recommend you go to your local MMA training facility (most major cities have several) and tell them of your views. I would be interested to hear how that works out for you.

I wonder what would happen if an MMA fighter would not walk into the ring? Maybe his career would be over because most of these MMA fighters are completely and utterly replaceable. I.E. No skill involved.

Ask Brock Lesnar when he bowed out of a fight due to illness. Let's see... he's still in MMA, he kept his title, and they rescheduled the fight. That answer that question for you?

I get it, you hate MMA. Fine. Hate it, but don't make up and twist facts about it to suit your anti MMA agenda.

If anything, I am angry at boxing for letting itself be destroyed by its own corruption, arrogance, and lack of organization. If you can't get the best fight in 30 years done, you don't deserve to be a sport. Period. I wouldn't call myself a hardcore MMA fan, but I do respect the participants and acknowledge the skill therein.

[TheCoolinator]

I do respect the participants and acknowledge the skill therein.

I guess that's where we differ......MMA lacks skill, finesse, and basic sportsmanship. People are dumb enough, they don't need more senseless and useless violence injected into their ever growing entertainment schedules. At least boxing had some normal rules and a sense of pride. MMA is nothing more then the physical manifestation of the decay within our society.

[Sam]

I guess that's where we differ......MMA lacks skill, finesse, and basic sportsmanship. People are dumb enough, they don't need more senseless and useless violence injected into their ever growing entertainment schedules. At least boxing had some normal rules and a sense of pride. MMA is nothing more then the physical manifestation of the decay within our society.


YEAH WELL I'VE NEVER SEEN ANYONE GET THEIR EAR BITTEN OFF IN A MMA FIGHT. :rolleyes

[Pentegarn]

YEAH WELL I'VE NEVER SEEN ANYONE GET THEIR EAR BITTEN OFF IN A MMA FIGHT. :rolleyes

Sam wins the internet! :rock

[Fathom Zero]

I guess that's where we differ......MMA lacks skill, finesse, and basic sportsmanship. People are dumb enough, they don't need more senseless and useless violence injected into their ever growing entertainment schedules. At least boxing had some normal rules and a sense of pride. MMA is nothing more then the physical manifestation of the decay within our society.

That's funny because in most interviews looking at a retired boxer, they're retarded mush-mouths where veteran MMA guys going on twenty years and still fighting are talking about their economy of motion.

Yeah, Jeet Kune Do is so fucking savage in comparison to boxing. I'm tired of that bullshit that boxing is more sophisticated and gentlemanly. YOU'RE PUTTING YOUR FIST INTO ANOTHER PERSON OVER AND OVER.

[MattJack]

:lol

Coolio is my favorite troll on I-Mockery now.

Some quick videos for people like him who may be reading this thread:


MMA fighter training. Dude is just a drunken bar brawler though, so anybody can do this s*it. Current UFC WW Champ.

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Classic Judo techniques wrecking strikers. I know, there isn't any skill in MMA or any use of martial arts.

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Some Karate being used here. This guy is the UFC LHW Champion. He's a karate master who's been practicing the art since he was a boy, but anybody can do this. They cut out the part where he breaks a person's neck, steals their girlfriend, and then rides off in his pick up truck with a confederate flag waving from the back though.
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Joe Rogan pushes boxing's shi* in, so pay attention to this Coolio.
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[Pentegarn]

44 inch vertical is pretty damn impressive.

Also, I heard the "human cockfighting" metaphor used again in the Rogan vid. I think that is about the worst analogy to use. In cockfigthing, the birds get no choice and have razorblades attached to them to cause more offensive damage. In MMA, these guys choose to fight. They do it in a mostly professional manner (what Mir said about hoping to kill Lesnar notwithstanding) and they do so without attaching razorblades to their bodies to inflict more bloody injuries.

[TheCoolinator]

Long post

I can't reply. I got warned. I guess we can just agree to disagree on MMA but I will leave you with this quote.


In the last decade, in fact, the sport has seen three deaths — two in poorly regulated shows outside the country and one in 2007 in Texas. The two fighters who died overseas may have had pre-existing medical conditions they failed to disclose. The Texas fighter died of "complications from blunt trauma to the head with subdural hemorrhage," according to the local medical examiner's office.

[Pentegarn]

Care to post a link to that quote so we can see it in context?

[MattJack]

In the last decade, in fact, the sport has seen three deaths — two in poorly regulated shows outside the country and one in 2007 in Texas. The two fighters who died overseas may have had pre-existing medical conditions they failed to disclose. The Texas fighter died of "complications from blunt trauma to the head with subdural hemorrhage," according to the local medical examiner's office.
The same thing could have happened with a boxing match. Poorly regulated sports will always have a bigger chance of being more dangerous. You can deregulate football, boxing, racing, etc. and it will greatly increase the chances of serious injury. I think all combat sports need strict regulations to ensure the safety of the athletes.

Blunt trauma to the head is more severe in boxing as stated earlier, but I think what is more telling about the quote is that the fighters possibly didn't disclose crucial medical information. Medical information is used for just about every sport out there and for good reason. The problem is that some athletes want to compete in the sport so badly that they'll go to great lengths to get their medical records smudged, faked, or accepted.

MMA wasn't the problem here, but rather the circumstances around it. You could easily replace MMA in this quote with "Football," "Boxing," "Hockey," "Professional Wrestling," and so on.

[MattJack]

Also, Coolio, it's fine to disagree. I enjoyed the little back and forth :posh

I just want to say that I'm not trying to make anybody like MMA better than boxing, or anything else. Everyone is entitled to their opinions, so that isn't what I got a beef with.

I have a problem with people who blindly bash MMA and spew shi* out of their mouths when they're clearly uneducated on the matter. All of the issues you have with MMA I could break down one by one and use video examples to enlighten you as to what is really going on. I'm not saying you'll love MMA or anything, but at least you would possibly rethink some of your positions.

There is a lot of MMA around the world, so don't limit your thinking to the western UFC promotion.

[Sam]

ALSO, NAME A FEMALE BOXER HOTTER THEN GINA CARANO.

I DON'T THINK YOU CAN.

[Dimnos]

The throwing fights debate is irrelevant to the conversation. We are discussing how MMA is a sloppy step back in the history of human civilization. Putting two grown men in a cage and having a contest where they choke, knee, stomp, bash, and attempt to break each others limbs is devolution in my honest opinion.......


Throwing fights aside, how is it backwards in the history of human civilization? They aren't fighting for blood or their lives, so don't try to equate this to some Rome gladiator bullshi* you saw with Russell Crowe. It is a test of wills and techniques.

It is just so ironic that you find it OK for two guys to beat the hell out of each others' skulls until one goes unconscious, but submissions and kicking is completely out of the question.


YEAH WELL I'VE NEVER SEEN ANYONE GET THEIR EAR BITTEN OFF IN A MMA FIGHT. :rolleyes

This is all I read of this thread. I feel I have seen all pertanent info.

[Pentegarn]

ALSO, NAME A FEMALE BOXER HOTTER THEN GINA CARANO.

I DON'T THINK YOU CAN.

You already won the internet earlier Sam. There is nowhere further you can go with this discussion after the ear comment so you should save that sort of heavy lumber for the next anti MMA honk who spouts about things they think they heard a friend say about MMA :lol

[Sam]

I'M JUST SAYING WHAT I FEEL IN MY HEAARRRRTTTT

[MattJack]

DONT HOLD WAHTS YER FEELIN IN

[Pentegarn]

I think we all hold what we're feelin' when we see Gina /rimshot

[TheCoolinator]

I'M JUST SAYING WHAT I FEEL IN MY HEAARRRRTTTT

I believe in you :love

[Pentegarn]

Not a spambot, not a hoax, I am bumping the boxing thread!

So Floyd Mayweather shows his class again :rolleyes

Skipping down to this part, we begin his tale of asshattery


Round four: (http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2011/sep/18/floyd-mayweather-victor-ortiz-live#block-38) This is more like it. Some big early punches. But then Ortiz gets Mayweather on the ropes, lands several punches, but none anywhere-near-decisively. And again Ortiz gets the unbeaten Mayweather on the ropes but again fails to land. Ortiz senses success but then sees Mayweather respond. And just before the bell he gets Mayweather on the ropes a third time. Ortiz is penalised for headbutting. Before the penalty Ortiz offers a kiss. And then, stunningly, as Ortiz appears to be unready, Mayweather attacks and knocks the champion down. Mayweather wins on a knock out.
Yes Floyd Mayweather, the coward who used the "Exploit Manny's fear of needles to avoid fighting him" technique, practically sucker punches Ortiz. Don't get me wrong, Ortiz should never have thrown a headbutt, but he was sorry and went over the top with the apology in ring, but if boxing is a gentleman's sport, shouldn't the participants act like gentlemen?

But he isn't done there, he then goes on to threaten an 80 year old broadcaster

DpT13IROopM

Stay classy Floyd :rolleyes

[Pentegarn]

We've heard it before. At this point though will anyone really believe that Mayweather wants to fight Paquio (http://www.badlefthook.com/2011/11/3/2534681/floyd-mayweather-next-fight-may-5-2012-pacquiao-vs-mayweather-newshttp://www.badlefthook.com/2011/11/3/2534681/floyd-mayweather-next-fight-may-5-2012-pacquiao-vs-mayweather-news)?

Mayweather is a coward, he only fights in fights he thinks he has no chance of losing, and when they say everyone wants you to fight Paquio, he pretends he thinks it is a good idea and then schemes to find a way to make it not happen (insert my oft repeated 'demanding Paquio take a blood test knowing his phobia of needles will make him have issues in the fight itself')

I would love to see the fight happen, but let us be brutally honest, does anyone believe it will at this point (http://www.storyarts.org/library/aesops/stories/boy.html)?

[Tomsm]

Boxing is a very interesting sport.
Klitschko brothers - best boxers of our time, in my opinion!)