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Carnivore
Dec 17th, 2003, 05:09 AM
I just got back from the midnight showing and, no great shock here, it was an amazing cinematic experience. The Battle of the Pelennor Fields is, beyond the shadow of a doubt, the greatest battle sequence ever. The story is mostly true to the books, but there were some elements missing. Hopefully, they'll be found in the extended editions. I'll spare the spoilers for now. Despite the gradeur of events at Minas Tirith, Frodo and Sam's story doesn't become a side-show, and it's not at all disappointing when they leave the battle to check their progress. All in all, the expected fantastic conclusion to a fantastic trilogy. Not to get my sore ass into bed. I'll comment more later.

Daphne
Dec 17th, 2003, 06:08 AM
I just got back from a midnight show too, and my ass is as sore as yours, I bet. Very fucking good, I hope he wins the Oscar for this one, he really, really deserves it. As long as it was, I can't wait for the extended dvd. I don't want to spoil anything either, so I hope everyone sees it soon ;)

Jixby Phillips
Dec 17th, 2003, 07:44 AM
FAGS :lol

pjalne
Dec 17th, 2003, 09:18 AM
This movie is so hyped up I'll be crying from disappointment when I get around to see it.

Protoclown
Dec 17th, 2003, 11:22 AM
I'm going at 3:10 this afternoon. I'm going to cry like a baby I'm sure :(

AChimp
Dec 17th, 2003, 01:07 PM
I DON'T GET TO SEE IT FOR A FEW DAYS BECAUSE I HAVE EXAMS. >:

PonchtheJedi
Dec 17th, 2003, 02:48 PM
It was so good that when I got to my car afterwards I was suprised that it was three and a half hours long.

Carnivore
Dec 17th, 2003, 03:02 PM
It will definitely make most people cry. I got watery-eyed a few times. It was emotionally-charged and visually stunning. The more I think about the missing elements, however, the more they annoy me. I'm just going to post the two things that disappoint me most.

Faramir may as well have not been in the movie. After he's saved from the funeral pyre, he doesn't even appear until the very end where he's seen merely standing next to Eowyn. The two of them don't exchange a single word in the entire movie.

Saruman doesn't even appear! They merely say he's holed up in Isengard and Treebeard will watch him. He doesn't exchange words with Gandalf. Wormtongue doesn't throw the palantir out the window, Pippen merely finds it in a puddle.

I seriously hope they remedy these in the extended edition, but the movie was still incredible despite these shortcomings of which only people who read the books will be aware.

Rez
Dec 17th, 2003, 03:25 PM
I just got back from the midnight showing and, no great shock here, it was an amazing cinematic experience. The Battle of the Pelennor Fields is, beyond the shadow of a doubt, the greatest battle sequence ever. The story is mostly true to the books, but there were some elements missing. Hopefully, they'll be found in the extended editions. I'll spare the spoilers for now. Despite the gradeur of events at Minas Tirith, Frodo and Sam's story doesn't become a side-show, and it's not at all disappointing when they leave the battle to check their progress. All in all, the expected fantastic conclusion to a fantastic trilogy. Not to get my sore ass into bed. I'll comment more later.

frodo and sam become anything BUT a sideshow. i like sam about 500 times more after seeing this film.

as for the entire movie trilogy, i shake my head whenever i think of how unbelivably powerful and outstanding it is. too goddamned brilliant. third movie was more than ace... i cant even find the word for it right now...the catapult scene, the legolas/mumakil scene, the dead army scene, eowyn/wiki fight, it was more than epic, it unbelievable. somehow fucking great movies such as these cause an "asshole" reaction where one feels the NEED to find something wrong. if parts of the book are missing and you feel vaguely slighted, thats fine, but dont, DONT bitch about the film itself. you're not going to find anything better than what we've seen here in terms of book adaptation, storytelling, and passion. this will be see again, and i'll be hanging on still, because it was so fucking well done.

Snatchtastic
Dec 17th, 2003, 04:26 PM
What a movie! There was absolutly no dissapointment with this amazing piece of 3 hour eye candy. I couldn't have hoped for anything better. No words can describe it for me now!!!

The Grey Havens :cry




Although nothings better than Eowyn challenging the Witch King.

Rez
Dec 17th, 2003, 04:31 PM
that was so badass it boosted eowyns character (who was always one dimensional :/ ) into legitimacy.

:love

McWorld
Dec 17th, 2003, 04:56 PM
What a great movie the only thing that puzzled me was the focus on the orc with no fingers (the one that looked like Sloth) was he the one wearing the ring in the first, they cut to his hand to show it clearly, was he the embodiment of Sauron?

Rez
Dec 17th, 2003, 05:02 PM
***VERY MINOR SPOILER BUT NOT REALLY ONLY IF YOU LIKE TO BE SURPRISED ABOUT EVERYTHING ROLLEYES***















??

are you talking about wiki? rode a nazgul that got it's head cut off?

Perndog
Dec 17th, 2003, 05:04 PM
that was so badass it boosted eowyns character (who was always one dimensional :/ ) into legitimacy.

:love

She was always a legitimate character. *SPOILER*













She was pissed that she was left behind and she masqueraded as a man to fight with the army anyway and then she saved the day and was a hero and all that fun stuff. What more character development did you need? A complicated love interest? :puke

EDIT: Oh, and they better have had Merry stab the dude in the foot, too. That was the best part of the book.

McWorld
Dec 17th, 2003, 05:09 PM
***VERY MINOR SPOILER BUT NOT REALLY ONLY IF YOU LIKE TO BE SURPRISED ABOUT EVERYTHING ROLLEYES***















??

are you talking about wiki? rode a nazgul that got it's head cut off?


No the orc that looked like Sloth from the Goonies not the Witch King

Rez
Dec 17th, 2003, 05:28 PM
that was so badass it boosted eowyns character (who was always one dimensional :/ ) into legitimacy.

:love

She was always a legitimate character. *SPOILER*













She was pissed that she was left behind and she masqueraded as a man to fight with the army anyway and then she saved the day and was a hero and all that fun stuff. What more character development did you need? A complicated love interest? :puke

EDIT: Oh, and they better have had Merry stab the dude in the foot, too. That was the best part of the book.

sounds to me from that last bit you posted you havent seen the movie yet. come on though, IN THE MOVIES, this give her credence, other than that beforehand she was there to show women fight and be inspired along with hundreds others and engage in unrequited adoration for aragorn. she needed to be in the movie, for everyone's sake, but she was flat... until then...oh my.

and mcworld... i think it was just the lead orc who had to distinguish himself from the others :/

could be wrong.

Maverick Zero Unit
Dec 17th, 2003, 05:38 PM
Ha, I saw all three movies last night, The Fellowship and Two Towers special extended versions, plus Return of the King started at about 10:00! Ha I saw it before all of you!

Rez
Dec 17th, 2003, 05:41 PM
oh well!

once you see it, it doesnt really matter when you did :/

besides, it all depends on what time zone you're in.

Maverick Zero Unit
Dec 17th, 2003, 05:53 PM
Eastern Standerd

HickMan
Dec 17th, 2003, 05:58 PM
I sure hope that this gets an Oscar for best movie and not another gay musical. I didn't see it yet, because I didn't reserve tickets because I'm a loser (:(). I am probobally going to go see it on Friday. I was humming the theme all during school today quietly.
If it's even half as good as the second one, which it will be better, I know, I will be the happiest boy in dee world. :)

Perndog
Dec 17th, 2003, 06:37 PM
Nope, I haven't seen it yet. I meant she was plenty interesting in the book.

executioneer
Dec 17th, 2003, 07:04 PM
fucking christ, I haven't seen this yet but SPOILERS

WTF they leave out the part at the end where Saruman has taken over the Shire? That's the best fucking part, you jerks. I mean come on >:

-willie

Protoclown
Dec 17th, 2003, 09:22 PM
I just got back and I fucking LOVED it. Sure, I was disappointed to see things were cut out from the theatrical version (Saruman, the Mouth of Sauron, the Houses of Healing, etc...and the Scouring of the Shire was never filmed so I wasn't disappointed because I did not expect it in the first place) but for me the definitive version will certainly be the extended one. I got the sense (much as I did with Two Towers) that a LOT of scenes were cut and/or shortened, and it did feel rushed at times.

Despite all that, the movie was EXCELLENT and I know that the Extended version will kick this one's ass into next week (as has been the case in all of the movies).

I got a bit misty eyed in some parts myself, and I'm not afraid to say it.

Oh and Willie, you will be happy to know that the "sneaking" conversation with Gollum was in the movie practically word for word.

executioneer
Dec 17th, 2003, 09:43 PM
well that makes up for it ALMOST :(

SPOILIES

but they could almost make another entire movie just about the scouring of the Shire >: maybe they WILL :eek

they left it out of the (gay) cartoon version too >:

AChimp
Dec 17th, 2003, 11:11 PM
Reading all the spoilers in this thread has ruined the movie for me. >:

Perndog
Dec 17th, 2003, 11:47 PM
Someone should put SPOILERS in the thread title.




willie - the problem with scouring the shire is that it's after the whole big good-guys-win climax...there are like 100 pages after the quest is actually over, and that sort of thing just doesn't fly in movies. Audiences want it to be done when it's done.

Daphne
Dec 18th, 2003, 12:16 AM
I want to say, I never read the books, I didn't like the first movie and I only sort of liked the second. THIS movie made me fucking cry. There was just so much about it that I can't even go into, call me a wayward fan or whatever, I don't care, but this was a fantastic movie. It can almost stand alone.

Also, I scared the shit out of a nerd who kept talking through the movie (saying 'That's the dude from the Matrix!' and shit) just by turning around and telling him to SHUT THE FUCK UP! I think I was the first woman to ever speak to him.

Now I want to go and not only watch the first ones, but read all the books as well.

O71394658
Dec 18th, 2003, 12:41 AM
I had never before read the books, so I have nothing to compare it to (in my opinion, reading books before movies [and vice-versa] kind of ruins it for me because I keep getting pissed about the parts that they cut out or change).

I didn't feel the need to cry in any parts of the movie, but every part was extremely well done. The acting was superb in every aspect. Everything was cued wonderfully. The battle scenes alone were worth going, and they were fantastically choreographed.

The only part I didn't like (again I haven't read the books so it probably flows better with people who have) was the ending. It kept shooting from frame to frame. Whenever I thought the movie was going to end, it kind of just lopped another frame on top. I think it sort of detracted from the entire "winning the battle" sort of adrenaline effect. Instead of finishing in a grand flourish, it kind of slowed down to a halt, and quietly walked out.

Still a great movie. Anyone and everyone should go see it if you haven't already.

Poxpower
Dec 18th, 2003, 02:18 AM
gotta agree with O71394658 as to the ending. Damn was that ever so endless.

And how come Gandalf is so weak??? He casts one pathetic spell in the whole movie and that's it! For a guy who beat a Ballrog, I'm not impressed.

Anyways, best movie of the year, and best of the Trilogy, it was fantastic, best battle scene ever and most enjoyable if you haven't read the book.

Brandon
Dec 18th, 2003, 03:02 AM
Incredible. In-fucking-credible. That was one of the best movies I've ever seen. The Pelennor Fields, Gollum's demise in Mount Doom, Eowyn and the Witch King--just beautiful. Oh, and a flaming Denethor plunging from the top of Minas Tirith--a lovely touch. :)

I'm not that disappointed to see the Scouring of the Shire removed. It would have just been anticlimactic and impractical to leave it in--the damn movie would have run for another half hour. I WAS a little miffed that Saruman and Wormtongue didn't even make an appearance AT ALL, though. They could have at least showed the spat between he and Gandalf at Orthanc.

Protoclown
Dec 18th, 2003, 03:38 AM
Achimp, I think everyone's been pretty good about labelling their spoilers and/or putting them in dark black text so they are harder to see. I don't consider what I posted spoilers because that stuff wasn't IN the movie.

For those of you who felt the ending of ROTK was too long, well, that's kind of the point. Tolkien really wanted to drive home the fact that these characters' lives would never be the same after the events they've been through, hence the long and extended denoument. In fact, in the book it is MUCH longer and more involved (about 100 pages like someone said) and has one very large and important section that was omitted from the movie for obvious reasons. It would have added at LEAST another half hour to do the scouring of the shire, possibly even more. It may have been nice to see, but I really don't think it would have worked very well in the film. It's kind of like a whole other movie in itself.

Buffalo Tom
Dec 18th, 2003, 08:07 AM
I saw 'Return of the King' last night. It is safe to say that this is one of the best movies ever. It also goes to show even a so-called Hollywood blockbuster can be artful and moving, as long as the filmmakers are sincere about telling a good story. I hope George Lucas is taking notes.

the_dudefather
Dec 18th, 2003, 09:35 AM
WARNING THIS THREAD CONTAINS TRACES OF SPOILERS



"that only counts as one!"

ROTK fucking rocked, the ONLY time the audience cheered and claped at the end, something never seen in Omagh cinema. probobly because it was the ned of a titanic 3 year movie experience, and because the movie rocked.

i was disapointed that lenard nimoy and his platoon of hobbit chicks diddnt save the day (ballad of bilbo baggins style).

i cant wait untill the next installment next ye.... oh fuck thats it for the lord of the rings, mid december 2004 is going to be boring.

peter jackson, I SALUTE YOU! (once again)

whoreable
Dec 18th, 2003, 09:56 AM
I saw this.

Anonymous
Dec 18th, 2003, 10:22 AM
I am sure there are spoilers in this.

He did a good job with the movie. I think the book is really just impossible to film. So... what he did with it was good.
One thing that really pissed me off was the music. There was a time or two in the two towers where the music annoyed me a little, but this time I really hated it in parts. I mean in the scenes that were supposed to be very dark, like Frodo and Sam on the mountain... and there is this happy fairy piccalo sounding music playing. What the fuck. Anyway, I think I'm probably the only person that got annoyed with that shit...

Overall, the movie wasn't as dark to me as I always pictured the ending. I mean... literally. I undersand that it's hard to film that sort of thing... but on and off it got that kind of dark - and then gets light again.
I also thought the movie seemed rushed from having read the story, but that's to be expected. Also... I think the ending.. though wasn't a standard "happy ending" still didn't have the same amount of sorrow that the book had for me. I am sure a lot of that has to do with taking out the shire stuff, and other things.. I think this might also relate to it having to be rushed.

That might make it sound like I didn't like it but that's not the case. I definitely think the extended version needs to be seen. The towers extended made a big difference to me.

Gollum/sam/frodo were great. A lot of scenes were just perfect.
The one part I got a little teary eyed was the "you bow to no one" line.

that's all I can think of right now

AChimp
Dec 18th, 2003, 10:25 AM
LOL! LOL! Protoclown fell for my joke!

I can't have the movies ruined by spoilers because I've read the books three times! :lol

whoreable
Dec 18th, 2003, 10:29 AM
Having never read the books I felt the ending dragged on and on. I probaly wouldnt have noticed it so much if there was a break in the middle. but i was getting pretty tired of sitting in the theater.

That said, I am sure I will enjoy watching the extended edition on dvd much more, since I can take some breaks in there.

Protoclown
Dec 18th, 2003, 01:37 PM
Chimp, I know plenty of people who have read the books who still get pissed when you talk about film spoilers, since the movies are different.

And Re, that "You bow to no one" part kind of got me too, and I was also kind of misty eyed when Frodo was clinging to the ledge and Sam was like "Don't you DARE let go".

One of the absolutely funniest parts of the movie was when Gimli walked in the doorway at the end with his arms out like he was gonna run up and give everyone a group hug.

Perndog
Dec 18th, 2003, 02:16 PM
Don't worry, Doopa. If the score is like that, I'll flinch too. :( :musicnerd

Oh well.

Protoclown
Dec 18th, 2003, 03:06 PM
On the other hand, I fucking loved the score. It's my favorite of the three. :)

Brandon
Dec 18th, 2003, 03:32 PM
In defense of Howard Shore's score...

The "happy piccolo" cue played when Sam is speaking to Frodo on Mt. Doom is the "Shire theme." It was absolutely appropriate considering that the topic of the dialogue at that point was fond memories of the Shire, used as incentive to gather up some strength to finish the task. The scene wasn't that "dark" at all--it was actually rather inspiring.

Perndog
Dec 18th, 2003, 06:09 PM
I will see the movie next Monday or Tuesday and evaluate the score then. Got my fingers crossed. Not that it's possible for me to disappointed; I know it's going to rock.

Mockery
Dec 18th, 2003, 07:08 PM
I'm not gonna say much right now because I really want to see the extended edition. It was really nice to finally see Eowyn kick ass in the film though. For now, however, I still like the first LOTR film the best by far.

Brandon
Dec 18th, 2003, 08:26 PM
One other thing I noticed:

Denethor was never shown to be in posession of a palantir. It seems insignificant, yeah, but it explains WHY he went so bat-shit insane. On that subject, the audience I saw it with really loved it whenever Gandalf would beat the shit out of him.

Ninjavenom
Dec 18th, 2003, 09:52 PM
SPOILZOIDS IN HERE





I saw it today. It appears that even though i missed the first 20 minutes, i didn't actually miss anything important.

It was as cool as i expected, for sure.

The Witch King looked awesome, and i loved when his wyvern shrieked, it was louder than those THX sound intros, and i'm sure some old people in the audience exploded.

I wondered what happened to Sarumann and the Ents, too, but i guess that was in the beginning?

My favorite part of the movie, though, was when the dudes rode in on the elephants, and these fuckin' awesome assassin-type guys started shooting arrows from the sides of the monsters at everyone. They had on the black hoods and only one eye was visible, and a red sash/outfit. They were wicked.

Legolas climbing the elephant was awesome, and extremely well CGed. In fact, all the CG in the movie looked really fucking good. I could tell sometimes when they would put in a light flare or haze so that we wouldn't get a good, hard look at some of the computer-made stuff, (such as soldiers from far away) but that's not gonna detract from the zillions of plus points it earned for Gollum, the spider, the elephants, the wyverns, the big lizard thingies the orcs rode, the trolls, etc.

Gollum made me want him dead way more than before in the movie this time, but that's a good thing. It means he was very believable. Did he look more muscular this time to anyone else? It seems like they used a stand-in a lot more this time, i guess because there were more action scenes involving him?

The acting was awesome.

My brother pointed out that Gandalf was more of a Beastmaster in this one than a White Wizard. He doesn't use a whole lot of magic, just when he tells the wyverns to piss off. And Aragorn didn't do much ass-kicking this time.

executioneer
Dec 18th, 2003, 10:22 PM
ARGH

The ending they DID have in there sucked so goddamn much, I really don't see how the Scouring would have been worse >: The rest of the movie was awesome beyond everything :( I'm going to see it again, but this time I'm leaving after Aragorn gets crowned :o

-willie

Rongi
Dec 19th, 2003, 12:29 AM
SPOILE- FUCK IT GO SEE THE MOVIE ALREADY STUPID >: >: >: >:

A few kids in the movie laughed when Boromeir's dad got caught on fire and ran and fell off the cliff. I wanted to kill them >:

executioneer
Dec 19th, 2003, 12:31 AM
yeah in mine too, omg >: and they laughed anytime gandalf hit him with his staff >:

-willie

Protoclown
Dec 19th, 2003, 02:04 AM
I get the feeling we'll be seeing Denethor and the palantir in the extended version. I really felt that there was soooooo much missing from the movie, but I guess that can't be helped. Maybe if I didn't KNOW it was filmed, that it was out there just waiting to be put back in the movie, I wouldn't have had that feeling. But I felt even more like this movie was incomplete than I did with Two Towers. Not that it bothers me so much because the Extended one will no doubt become my definitive version.

Poxpower
Dec 19th, 2003, 02:27 AM
Damn Proto, why did you even bother watching it, you know the whole story, all the parts they filmed and didn't, and probably have a picture of all the actors in their costumes.
Just... like, play it on your mind and save some dough :p

SPOILER...

I though that when Denethor threw himself off that cliff when he was on fire was helluva corny. I think its the stupidest/most useless addition ( aside from Tom Bombadil of course). I mean, come on. Just get back on that burning pile of wood and save yourself the possible embarassement of killing one of you own soldiers by faling on him. Or something.

And from the perspective of somene who hasn't read the book, I must say that I was also dissapointed in not seing saruman at all. I though that was a cheap shot :p "oh... he's.. he's in the tower... don't worry, we'll watch him and all.. yeah...".

But I loved the Flashback at Gollum's past and when he got the ring. I find that this was a great way to start the movie smoothly.

And the most emotional part is when Frodo tell sam to go home after Gollum made Frodo beleive Sam wanted the ring for himself. That's hands down the most emotional moment in there.
And I loved the focus on Sam and Frode in this one. Their relation was so incredibely deep. Wow I says.
And also, I like the Oliphants part ( obviously) best part ever. EVER. Gotta love how they trample the horses so easily and how they are as big as Brontosaurus.
Speaking of squashing and trampling, I believe that this is the first movie where I saw the actual effectiveness of a horseback attack. That scene where the Riders of Rohan tear through the orcs is fabulous. And I loved the Catapults too, especially when the warriors in the big white city ( whatsitsname) throw big blocks of rock and just squah orcs. Haha they jsut fall and FWOOO you don't hear a scream, or a splat, but you know it just squashed 5 orcs.
Powerfull.

And Sam vs Shellob = yeah right.

Perndog
Dec 19th, 2003, 02:41 AM
( aside from Tom Bombadil of course)

This guy says he didn't read the book. But he knows about Tom Bombadil. What gives?

executioneer
Dec 19th, 2003, 02:42 AM
lol when Theoden said "Forth Eorlingas" I wept like a little girl :lol

-willie

FS
Dec 19th, 2003, 08:27 AM
Oh my... GOD. That was most definitely, most definitiously the best movie I have ever seen. There were some choices in the end I didn't agree with, but it didn't change that this was godlike. A quick run-through:

-When the movie started, it took me a while to realize I was looking at Andy Serkis. I liked the brief "devolution" backstory, and I think the non-book readers will have appreciated it too.

-Pippin's song gave me chills.

-When Sam and Gollum had the little talk about 'sneakin' I thought of Willie's comments in the Two Towers Extended Edition thread :o

-Almost everybody got their chance to shine... save for maybe Gimli and Legolas, but they had plenty of moments in the previous movie. Eowyn was terrific, Merry and Pippin managed to break out of the "those two other hobbits" classification, and Sam... Sam kicked mountainloads of ass. He was the star of the movie for me, and Sean Astin should get an Oscar or something.

-The fight with the Oliphaunts reminded me of my favorite scene from Star Wars; the battle on Hoth, against the AT-STs.

-Much as I didn't tire from the mass battles, the better part of the movie was obviously for Sam, Frodo and Gollum. The end of the ring was as breathtaking as I'd imagined it. It was so great to see Gollum throw aside all the facade and just try take the ring at all cost.

I think that's all I gots to say 'bout thayat. In the end I did feel that too many liberties had been taken from the book. It's been long since I read Return of the King, but I distinctly remember either Merry or Pippin dying under the fallen body of a troll at the battle at the Black Gates. I don't think they should've taken that out. I also thought (but wasn't sure) that Aragorn was almost mortally wounded at that battle, and was eventually healed with Eowyn by his side. I don't remember Arwen showing up at all anymore, but maybe I'm wrong. Jackson seemed to want to spare the audience the rather melancholic ending Tolkien wrote, but I think he overdid it. In the books, even defeating Sauron couldn't stop the slow decay of the world, and you didn't really see that now.
What I did think was a good choice, was dropping the Hobbits' homecoming and finding the Shire industrialized. I hated that in the book, it was like Superman coming home from saving the universe and having the battle his landlord for another fifteen minutes.
Looks like they also went by on Sam's eventual departure for the Grey Havens, but of course, he was never shown using the ring to escape the orcs, as he did in the books.

Poxpower
Dec 19th, 2003, 08:34 AM
This guy says he didn't read the book. But he knows about Tom Bombadil. What gives?

erm there's 3 books.. so I read the first two and not the last? possibly.

So I want someone to explain to me..
What IS the ring for anyways? One of my friends says its so Sauron can get back into his body ( the body being that of the Nasghul Leader). Is that right?
But I never got WHY he made the ring in the first place. And how it can increase his power somehow. But he doesn't make another. Or dies without it.
I didn't get that fully.

Carnivore
Dec 19th, 2003, 09:45 AM
In the book, neither Merry nor Pippin dies, Aragorn is not mortally wounded, and he eventually marries Arwen. Faramir ends up hooking up with Eowyn. Sam never goes to the Gray Havens. He stays in the Shire with his wife. I think it's time to crack those books again.

Pippin's song overlayed with Faramir's hopeless charge was fucking amazing.

FS
Dec 19th, 2003, 10:36 AM
Hm. I must've been thinking of the moment when Pippin drags Merry out from under the body, and he looks almost dead. And maybe I got Faramir's near-deathness confused with Aragorn.

Are you certain about Sam, though? I thought, because he briefly wore the ring after the orcs approached the unconscious Frodo, he had to eventually go to the Grey Havens too, many years after Frodo left. Or, maybe I'm confusing that with Frodo not leaving on those ships till a few years after he returned.

I made a point of it not to re-read each of the books until directly after I saw the movie... I didn't want to pick up on all the minor (and major) differences. Well, guess I'll pick up Return of the King again for Christmas.

Protoclown
Dec 19th, 2003, 01:24 PM
Poxpower, I've only read the books twice in my life, I'm by no means an expert. However they are fresh in my memory because I read them for the second time about a year ago.

FS, Carni is right about everything that's in the book. Merry was very badly wounded after the fight with the Witch King, and he was in the Houses of the Healing along with Eowyn and Faramir. It was thought that he MIGHT die for a while but he managed to pull through. That's probably what you're thinking of. Aragorn was never really hurt at all that I can remember.

And Sam never did go off to the Grey Havens, in fact the last two pages or so from the book are exactly what you see on screen down to the very last line uttered.

There MAY be a mention of Sam eventually going to the Grey Havens in the appendices or the timeline, but I don't think so, and even if there is, it's not part of the story proper.

As it stands right now I cannot say this is the best movie I've ever seen, or even definitely the best of the trilogy, it just feels incomplete to me at the moment (though I DID fucking LOVE it). I fully expect when I view the Extended version and see so many of the sequences I looked forward to reinserted into the film, it may very well become my favorite. I feel it's unfair for me to make comparisons based solely on the theatrical release though since I view the Extended versions as the definititive ones.

Protoclown
Dec 19th, 2003, 01:35 PM
So I want someone to explain to me..
What IS the ring for anyways? One of my friends says its so Sauron can get back into his body ( the body being that of the Nasghul Leader). Is that right?
But I never got WHY he made the ring in the first place. And how it can increase his power somehow. But he doesn't make another. Or dies without it.
I didn't get that fully.

I've never read the Silmarillion, nor do I particularly want to, as long chronicles of history and who begat who do not interest me. I want the meat and potatos, someone else can pour over all the insignificant details.

However, I've talked to friends who have read nearly EVERYTHING so this is partial speculation on my part and partial remembering what they've told me.

Initially Sauron created the ring to have dominion over all the other rings he created, so that he could basically enslave the other races to his will. But he's been around for eons now, and I figure that the only thing tying him to the world is the One Ring that he stored a good portion of his power in long long ago. He is weak without it because he cannot tap into that stored power, and when it gets destroyed, he's fucked, because there's nothing to anchor him to the world anymore. As when Bilbo gave up the ring, all those years caught up with him, I believe that when the ring was destroyed, all those ages caught up with Sauron and he no longer had anything keeping him around past his expiration date.

If memory serves, the Nazgul leader was a powerful king of men from up in the North from a place called Angmar. He's a totally different dude from Sauron, so no, Sauron would not take over his body. I don't recall the books ever making any mention of Sauron taking a physical form, except for the reference to Gandalf fighting the Necromancer (which was during The Hobbit, I think?).

Hopefully that will help, and I'm sure Willie or Carnivore will come in and correct me where I was wrong or talking completely out of my ass.

Buffalo Tom
Dec 19th, 2003, 01:35 PM
I fully expect when I view the Extended version and see so many of the sequences I looked forward to reinserted into the film, it may very well become my favorite.

I hope they include the cabaret scene in which Frodo and Sam dress as women and try to charm their way out of Cirith Ungol with a winning combination of toe-tapping song-and-dance numbers.

Brandon
Dec 19th, 2003, 03:57 PM
What IS the ring for anyways? One of my friends says its so Sauron can get back into his body ( the body being that of the Nasghul Leader).
There is a discrepancy between Sauron's physical state in the books and in the movies.

In the films, he is represented as more of a malevolent spirit--the all-seeing eye who would only be complete again when the Ring--where most of his old power is concentrated--is returned to him. In the books, however, there is no question that he has taken physical form again (albeit a weak form). At one point it is mentioned that there are only 9 fingers on the Black Hand, but it is enough to hold the Ring.

executioneer
Dec 19th, 2003, 04:04 PM
YES I AM A GIANT NERD OK

Sauron's physical form was destroyed fighting Elendil in the battle that created the Dead Marshes, but his spirit did not perish, because he put so much of himself into the making of the Ring.

-willie

Protoclown
Dec 19th, 2003, 04:09 PM
And isn't Sauron a servant of Morgoth or something like that?

O71394658
Dec 19th, 2003, 04:40 PM
Can someone who read the books answer this for me:

When they leave on the ship (at the end), where exactly do they go? I thought it was some death symbolism, but I think it's some elven paradise or something...

Buffalo Tom
Dec 19th, 2003, 04:54 PM
Can someone who read the books answer this for me:

When they leave on the ship (at the end), where exactly do they go? I thought it was some death symbolism, but I think it's some elven paradise or something...

Disney World! :)

Brandon
Dec 19th, 2003, 05:16 PM
And isn't Sauron a servant of Morgoth or something like that?
Sauron was a disciple of Melkor (AKA Morgoth), the first great Dark Lord. When Melkor/Morgoth was overthrown, Sauron took up his master's work.
When they leave on the ship (at the end), where exactly do they go? I thought it was some death symbolism, but I think it's some elven paradise or something...
They sailed for Valinor, which is the land of the Valar (high-ranking spirits), only kept open to elves and certain distinguished individuals. It should be mentioned that mortal beings who go to Valinor remain mortal and do not achieve immortality.

Here's a fantastic site with everything you ever wanted to know about the Arda mythos:
http://www.glyphweb.com/arda

Poxpower
Dec 19th, 2003, 10:01 PM
Oh alright, so the right is kinda like the fresh seal on Sauron's body and when you take it away from him, time gets him and he dies in a "meteors crashes on earth" kinda way.
Well good for him.

I still wish they had explained what the other rings of power actually did. Does anyone know about that? Do they have magical powers (beneficial) as well, or are they just too damned pretty for future slaves to not accept them?

Protoclown
Dec 19th, 2003, 10:26 PM
I'm pretty sure at least one of the elven rings had some kind of fire power or something. At least it was the ring of fire, and I think that's the one Gandalf had. But I could be wrong.

HickMan
Dec 20th, 2003, 12:21 AM
I just came back from the movie. I would normally say "wow". But the word wow dosn't do it justice. So I have come up with a new word. reallyreallyreallyreallywow. Jesus Christ that movie was...Just...JESUS CHRIST.

Brandon
Dec 20th, 2003, 02:11 AM
I'm pretty sure at least one of the elven rings had some kind of fire power or something. At least it was the ring of fire, and I think that's the one Gandalf had. But I could be wrong.
The three rings forged solely by the elves were Narya (fire), Nenya (water), and Vilya (air), and they had some measure of power over their respective elements. Gandalf was given Narya, Galadriel held Nenya, and Elrond held Vilya.

The other sixteen were created by elven smiths under the tutelage of Sauron (disguised as Annatar, the "Lord of Gifts"). After he created his One Ring, he besieged those very smiths, stole the sixteen, and gave nine to men and seven to dwarves. The human kings, of course, were enslaved by Sauron, but the dwarves managed to resist his magic.

executioneer
Dec 20th, 2003, 03:58 AM
you can see Narya on Gandalf's hand in the "farewell" scene :hat

-willie

FS
Dec 20th, 2003, 12:51 PM
So is "three rings for the elven kings" not right then? There was a nondescript third elf standing by Elrond and Galadriel in the end.

I think it was mentioned in the books once or twice that several of the rings had gotten lost or were thought destroyed, too.

Protoclown
Dec 20th, 2003, 01:46 PM
Yeah, that was Galadriel's husband Celeborn. He was in Fellowship when they were in Lothlorien. But he's obviously Galadriel's BITCH so he doesn't talk much.

I can't blame him, I would soooo be Galadriel's bitch too.

AChimp
Dec 20th, 2003, 05:07 PM
I was masturbating throughout the entire movie. :love

The undead army ruled, and so did Eowyn. :love

HickMan
Dec 20th, 2003, 05:27 PM
I forget that guys name that tried to burn his son alive. (I know proto would know) But anyway. I'd like to go the way he did. Falling off of a cliff...ON FIRE :eek . That stole the spotlight.

Big Papa Goat
Dec 20th, 2003, 11:18 PM
It was good, but some the characterization was weak, and I thought the part with Pippin singing and Faramir charging was kind of lame :/.
:(

Brandon
Dec 21st, 2003, 04:11 AM
So is "three rings for the elven kings" not right then?
No, it's right. The original holders of Nenya, Narya, and Vilya were high-ranking elves. Cirdan the Shipwright originally held Narya, but gave it to Gandalf when the wizards first arrived in Middle Earth. Gil-Galad was the first owner of Vilya, but he passed it down to Elrond when Rivendell was founded. Nenya was always in the posession of Galadriel.

And YES, Celeborn is Galadriel's faithful bitch.

pjalne
Dec 21st, 2003, 10:37 AM
EDIT: SPOILERS

Saw it yesterday, and loved it. There's been enough gushing in this thread by now.

What I learned in the theater is that people are fucking tools. They're so used to being dictated how to react by canned laughter and movies far too bound to convention that they can't watch a gerne-bending film without annoying the hell out of me. If Gimli has one funny line, they'll laugh at EVERY FUCKING LINE HE HAS, because someone who has a funny line in a movie is a comic relief and all their lines should be laughed at. So if he's asked if he can picture himself falling alongside a friend and answers "Aye. I could do that." that of course is meant to be a joke. If Frodo makes pained faces at camera from being stung by a giant spider, that's funny, because grimaces are funny. And when he appears to be dead and is covered in cobwebs, it's funny cuz he's looks like a mummy and is pale lol! Gollum is animated, so he's the wacky sidekick. And when a wacky sidekick makes a face, it's funny regardless of whether he's just realizing he's being melted alive in a pool of lava or not. And spiders are icky, so whenever a movie cuts to a spider the correct response is saying "Eeeeeeeew!" so everyone can hear how yucky the spider is. These are the same people who laugh when they watch Nosferatu because it's in fast-motion and Benny Hill is in fast motion. I fucking hate people. Also, three cellphones. Three fucking cellphones.

But this and much much more couldn't ruin it for me because the film was so good.

Ninjavenom
Dec 21st, 2003, 12:01 PM
They fucking did that to me during Two Towers. >:

AChimp
Dec 21st, 2003, 12:13 PM
The audience was pretty good when I went. :/

I think there was a laugh in Gollum's monologue scene at the beginning, Gimli's "That still only counts as one," and when the orc chief spits on the boulder that almost crushed him.

Nobody eew'ed for the spider. :)

HickMan
Dec 21st, 2003, 12:13 PM
Some old lady sat behind me with a daughter that must of been at least sixteen, and when Gollum was eating that fish, the old lady said to her husband, "Oh no! Sara's going to have nightmares!" and then the sixteen year girl said "MOM SHUT UP! NO I WON'T!". God I could of killed them at that point. And after that, the old lady said "EWW!" when the orcs threw the human heads. >:

pjalne
Dec 21st, 2003, 12:53 PM
The audience was pretty good when I went. :/

I think there was a laugh in Gollum's monologue scene at the beginning, Gimli's "That still only counts as one," and when the orc chief spits on the boulder that almost crushed him.

Yeah, but those were funny moments. Well, the spit thing wasn't axactly hilarious, but I loved how they took the horse-swing bit, which itself upped the ante from the cave troll bit, and showed they were going to top it with the mumakil. And then they blew it completely out of proportion to the point where it almost got silly, before punctuating it with Gimli's line. And I laughed myself when Gollum asked himself about the taste of orc meat in the other scene you mention. Sounds like an audience I could appreciate.

Anonymous
Dec 21st, 2003, 02:37 PM
And when he appears to be dead and is covered in cobwebs, it's funny cuz he's looks like a mummy and is pale lol!

I don't know about the other stuff you mentioned, but my friend and I chuckled at that. He's got that blank look on his face, and a little eye shadow on his cheek, and meanwhile, Sam is showing all this emotion while Frodo is giving us the Neo treatment. It was a little funny.

Immortal Goat
Dec 21st, 2003, 05:46 PM
...I thought the part with Pippin singing and Faramir charging was kind of lame :/.
:(

BURN IN HELL!! >:

In all seriousness, those of you that thought the movie seemed rushed and are looking forward to the Extended Edition have nothing to fear. I hear that the ROTK Ext. Ed. alone will be...

wait for it...














TEN HOURS LONG!!! :eek :eek :wank :love

pjalne
Dec 21st, 2003, 05:50 PM
Haha, that would've been awesome. It would lose all momentum, though. So it would suck.

Immortal Goat
Dec 21st, 2003, 05:53 PM
Oh, and Pippin singing BETTER be on the fucking soundtrack! >:

FS
Dec 21st, 2003, 06:18 PM
hear that the ROTK Ext. Ed. alone will be...

wait for it...

TEN HOURS LONG!!!

You don't seriously believe that to even be possible, do you? I mean, I didn't get the impression you were joking. Unless you mean movie plus documentaries and miscellaneous shiz, which I suppose would be more likely.

Anyway, this is probably common knowledge to everyone who's complained about it, but the scene where Gandalf and Saruman vocally "have it out" will be in the extended edition. Jackson omitted it from the theatre version because he felt it would interfere with RotK feeling like a completely new movie, or something.

In the theatre where I was watching it, with about a half an hour left, there suddenly came all these spots through the movie, as if there was dust on the movie reel or something. But nobody seemed to want to get up and tell someone about it, myself included. Luckily, it disappeared before the ending.

Immortal Goat
Dec 21st, 2003, 06:32 PM
Ten hours may be a slight exageration (sp?), but from what I hear, it will be close. There is a TON of shit that they cut out of the movie, and EVERYTHING that was cut will be put back in.

pjalne
Dec 21st, 2003, 06:37 PM
I can't really believe that. In 99% of all cases, throwing everything that's cut back in will result in a weaker narrative. That's just poor decision-making.

Immortal Goat
Dec 21st, 2003, 06:46 PM
Do you really think Peter Jackson is one to make a poor decision? Look at his track record.

pjalne
Dec 21st, 2003, 06:55 PM
I have every confidence in Jackson, which is why I'm saying there's no way that film will be ten hours. Plus, the first cut was four hours and fifty minutes or something.

Krythor
Dec 21st, 2003, 08:29 PM
I can't even imagine ten hours worth of material being written for the final screenplay draft. If you're right, I will eat my own face.

KevinTheOmnivore
Dec 22nd, 2003, 01:32 AM
What I learned in the theater is that people are fucking tools. They're so used to being dictated how to react by canned laughter and movies far too bound to convention that they can't watch a gerne-bending film without annoying the hell out of me. If Gimli has one funny line, they'll laugh at EVERY FUCKING LINE HE HAS, because someone who has a funny line in a movie is a comic relief and all their lines should be laughed at. So if he's asked if he can picture himself falling alongside a friend and answers "Aye. I could do that." that of course is meant to be a joke. If Frodo makes pained faces at camera from being stung by a giant spider, that's funny, because grimaces are funny. And when he appears to be dead and is covered in cobwebs, it's funny cuz he's looks like a mummy and is pale lol! Gollum is animated, so he's the wacky sidekick. And when a wacky sidekick makes a face, it's funny regardless of whether he's just realizing he's being melted alive in a pool of lava or not. And spiders are icky, so whenever a movie cuts to a spider the correct response is saying "Eeeeeeeew!" so everyone can hear how yucky the spider is. These are the same people who laugh when they watch Nosferatu because it's in fast-motion and Benny Hill is in fast motion. I fucking hate people. Also, three cellphones. Three fucking cellphones.

THANK YOU.

I just saw this, and although I didn't think it was as great as everyone is saying, it was a good movie. I however nearly had the experience ruined by retards who had to snicker and giggle every time Sam and Frodo had a semi-emotional moment together that seemed intimate. It got so bad that at one point near the end I just had to say out loud "HA HA! I GET IT NOW, THEY'RE GAY! HA HA!!"

Now, I have some questions here. And before anyone asks, NO, I have never read the Tolkien books. NO, I haven't read any of the other pages in this thread, so if you already touched upon this then I'm sorry. But redundancy is a skill on these boards, so whatever. Anyway, I had heard that Sam ends up with the ring. I heard this from more than one sci-fi, Tolkien Nazi. Was I just fooled, or am I missing something...? Oh, uh, "SPOILERS"...

Urban2
Dec 22nd, 2003, 01:45 AM
How would Sam end up with the ring, it's destroyed so there's no way he could end up with it. How do you not know this? You said you just saw the movie.

KevinTheOmnivore
Dec 22nd, 2003, 01:53 AM
Clearly, the point you were supposed to absorb was that I went to the movie with a preconceived notion of how the movie would end, hence my entire reason for posting in this thread.

Clearly, you didn't get that.

And clearly, you need to stop breathing.

Urban2
Dec 22nd, 2003, 01:55 AM
But I would end up unconscious if I... oh wait now I get it, and now I would like to say:

FUCK OFF

KevinTheOmnivore
Dec 22nd, 2003, 01:59 AM
HA HA HA

We should be I-Mockery friends now......

Urban2
Dec 22nd, 2003, 02:00 AM
lololololololololololololololololololololololololo lolololololololololololololol
lololololololololololololololololololololololololo lolololololololololololololol
lololololololololololololololololololololololololo lolololololololololololololol
lololololololololololololololololololololololololo lolololololololololololololol

Protoclown
Dec 22nd, 2003, 02:01 AM
Peter Jackson cut 1 hour and 5 minutes from the rough theatrical cut of ROTK to get to the finished print we saw in the theater. Take also into account that he probably set aside some footage straight off the bat that he only ever intended for the extended version. Ian McKellan has recently said that he believes that the Extended version of the movie could be 5 hours long. I'll certainly believe it could end up that way and I hope they add as much back in as is possible without the narrative screeching to a halt.

Kevin, what those Tolkien geeks must have been referring to was the part where Sam gets the ring for a little while as Frodo is held captive in the tower of Cirith Ungol (I only remember that name because I have the soundtrack and there is a track by that title...oh, and yes, Pippin's singing is on it). The only major difference between that part of the movie and the book is that in the book Sam actually USES the ring to turn invisible and sneak into the tower to save Frodo. But that's it. Sam doesn't end up with the ring. The events where the ring is dealt with once and for all are pretty much depicted exactly as they are in the book.

KevinTheOmnivore
Dec 22nd, 2003, 02:04 AM
Gotcha, thanks. Are there any writings after this trilogy...?

Protoclown
Dec 22nd, 2003, 02:13 AM
I don't really know. He wrote a lot of histories and other stories about Middle Earth, but none of them ever interested me. I don't see how Sam could have ended up with the One Ring though at any point since it was destroyed.

KevinTheOmnivore
Dec 22nd, 2003, 02:21 AM
No, I agree, and clearly after seeing the movie I understand that. I was just curious, cuz I wanted to perhaps this time read the books b/f Peter Jackson could get his hands on them. ;) (although I hear the Hobbit isalready in the works....?)

pjalne
Dec 22nd, 2003, 05:33 AM
They've working on a rights issue concerning the Hobbit. It might be made, and I'll see it if it is, but I'll be mighty pissed if Ian Holm doesn't play Bilbo.

And I was hoping the part where Sam puts the ring on would be in the extended cut, but now that I look back on the film it probably won't, seeing how they made a point of not telling us Sam had it when Frodo is sure it's been brought to Sauron.

EDIT: And yeah, looks like the extended edition will be about five hours long. Which means we'll probably get Houses of Healing and that whole Faramir thing that goes on there, Voice of Saruman will of course be in it, probably a bit more battle footage of the blink-and-you'll-miss-'em army of the dead, and hopefully less slo-mo laughter and gay jumping in bed. Although I'll have to agree with whoever said it that the moment when Gimli comes through the door was pretty funny.

PonchtheJedi
Dec 22nd, 2003, 11:39 AM
I suppose this could be a spoiler...


Did anybody else not like the "I am no man!" line? It seemed to be trying to like, score grrl power points or something to me.

AChimp
Dec 22nd, 2003, 11:58 AM
That line made me want to ravage Eowyn like the hot not-a-man she is. :(

Daphne
Dec 22nd, 2003, 01:06 PM
I liked it, it's not like she said 'I'm a chick, motherfucker'

Protoclown
Dec 22nd, 2003, 01:28 PM
Plus it's pretty much straight out of the book.

Snatchtastic
Dec 22nd, 2003, 02:38 PM
Eowyn fucking up the Witch King was my favorite part of the show, I saw the movie again yesterday and completely spunked in my beverage at how fucking dope this movie is.

I know it will be on the extended edition DvD, but I was really hoping to see the scene where Merry pledges his allegience to Theoden.

Anonymous
Dec 22nd, 2003, 05:18 PM
I know it will be on the extended edition DvD, but I was really hoping to see the scene where Merry pledges his allegience to Theoden.

Yeah, I know. That scene totally wasn't in the movie. :rolleyes

Snatchtastic
Dec 22nd, 2003, 05:56 PM
Don't roll your goddamn eyes at me!!! :rolleyes

WorthlessLiar
Dec 22nd, 2003, 07:49 PM
Did anybody else not like the "I am no man!" line? It seemed to be trying to like, score grrl power points or something to me.

The Clown's right, this is very much what Tolkien intended. I think it may actually have something to do with his dislike of Macbeth. In Shakespeare's play Macbeth supposedly cannot be killed by any man born of a woman. Eventually Macbeth is killed by some guy cut out of his mother's womb. Tolkien probably saw this as a huge cop-out and decided to do it right in ROTK. I thought the movie was awesome in how it handled it.

The Ents were also inspired in part by Tolkien's dissappointment with Macbeth but you knew that if you watched all the TT extra discs.

Let me also say that ROTK was truly Peter Jackson's Christmas gift to the world.

HickMan
Dec 22nd, 2003, 08:20 PM
Immortal Goat is confused. There, of course, will be a set of all LOTR movies that will be over 10 hours long :rolleyes.

PonchtheJedi
Dec 23rd, 2003, 12:16 PM
Well, it' s been ages since I read the books, otherwise I doubt the scene would've seemed strange to me. I originally thought that Gandalf killed the witch king (told ya, it's been a LONG time).

The line in particular just seemed like something Michelle Rodriguez would say in a flick to me.

Maybe I'm just a misogynist.

Urban2
Dec 23rd, 2003, 01:42 PM
Michelle Rodriguez is a hotty.

Protoclown
Dec 23rd, 2003, 01:57 PM
I can't argue with that! (Unless I was gay like James LOLOLOL)

pjalne
Dec 23rd, 2003, 06:42 PM
I just went out to find the last gift of the season and found a children's book retelling The Return of the King. It left out all the death stuff and condensed the entire story to about fifty pages, half of which were pictures. I especially liked the ending: "And finally Frodo and Sam got to Mount Doom to destroy the ring. All of a sudden Gollum appeared, but it was too late. The end." (paraphrased)

What was interesting was that it featured a picture of Aragorn patching Faramir up in the houses of healing. Guess that one can be confirmed for the extended scene list.