|
||||||
| FAQ | Members List | Calendar | Today's Posts | Search |
Topic Review (Newest First)
|
| Sep 30th, 2003 12:11 PM | ||
| kellychaos | This is kind of a catch-22. You're stuck between the public's right to information while at the same time you want to maintain security to protect the information, u.s. troops and possibly those being detained. Hard decisions really. Where would you draw the line? I'll give you a hypothetical, assuming that the Al Qaeda organization doesn't know who's being detained (we hope). What would happen if one or more of the detainees started opening up with the info like a faucet and the Al Qaeda knew, or had an idea who, it might be? How is that serving us or that particular detainee? To extend the point further, if all the detainees even thought that their identities were known, how likely do you think they would be to give any info at all with the knowledge that once they give the info the best that they can hope for is protection by us? | |
| Sep 29th, 2003 12:27 PM | ||
| mburbank |
Kelly, if you'll slap the irriating dung fly buzzing around I'll try to answer your point, that being the nature of discourse. We don't know how many people are there. We don't know their names We don't know their ages, though the Army admits We don't know when or if they will be charged The only knowledge we have of them comes from the people holding them. No one else is allowed any contact. THAT's the spotlight? |
|
| Sep 29th, 2003 11:56 AM | ||
| VinceZeb | Wasn't supposed to be a comeback; it was meant as an observation. | |
| Sep 29th, 2003 11:54 AM | ||
| Zhukov | That comeback was complete and utter shit. | |
| Sep 29th, 2003 11:47 AM | ||
| VinceZeb |
You would piss on the grave of someone that is just an avatar and text on a message board? Man, you're warped. |
|
| Sep 29th, 2003 11:22 AM | ||
| kellychaos |
Quote:
|
|
| Sep 29th, 2003 11:18 AM | ||
| VinceZeb |
"Really Max, that sounds more like a movie of the week and less like your normal, rational thought." Kelly needs to do standup. |
|
| Sep 29th, 2003 11:03 AM | ||
| kellychaos |
Quote:
|
|
| Sep 29th, 2003 10:00 AM | ||
| mburbank | That's true. It should be remembered though, that obedience to orders doesn't always wash as a defense when those who followed them go on trial. | |
| Sep 26th, 2003 08:19 PM | ||
| The_Rorschach | Quite right Max, I simply wished to point out that should the charges against him be proven. . .His guilt can not be mitigated by intent, no matter how earnest it may be. | |
| Sep 26th, 2003 12:37 PM | ||
| mburbank |
Shach, unless you either know something I don't about the particulars of this case, or for some other reason believe there is no possability the charges as they have been portrayed are false, I'd withold Judgement. Suppose, for the sake of argument, prisoners have been tortured to death, with your superiors knowledge. What might happen to you if you were to report this to your superior, or to try bucking up the chain of command? Might you not feel a moral obligation to do whatever you could? Granted, that's purely hypothetical, but in the absence of any evidence at all, I'd urge you to assume innocence until guilt is proven. All I'm saying, is this smells like a story to me, and a big one. Maybe it's all very simple, very cut and dried, and it will all come out in the wash. But personally, I think the intense secrecy surround camp X-ray has more to do with what's going on there than it does National security. In the absence of evidence, I will assume innocence on the part of our leadership. But it's disturbing to me that our leadership is so heavily invested in maintaining a constant lack of evidence. |
|
| Sep 26th, 2003 12:05 PM | ||
| kellychaos | Well said. | |
| Sep 25th, 2003 04:29 PM | ||
| The_Rorschach |
Personally, regardless of his religious tendancies, the military is right in prosecuting Yee, and in fact must do so if only to uphold disciplinary standards. As a civilian, one is supposed to take incriminating evidence to the FBI, local police, McGruff truck whatever. . .In the military there is actually a prescribed operating procedure for how to deal with mismanagement and abuse of facilities, materials or men. Military personnell cannot act like Linda Tripp, hoard damning information, and take it to the press. Without formal consent, no service member is to act in any capacity which would represent an official source of information to the public. They are required, may I repeat required, to report infractions first to their chain of command, and, should this not bring about change, to am impartial I.G. who would then lead and inquest into the outlined charges of misconduct. Even failing these there are prescribed measures which can be taken in order to ensure justice is served. There is no excuse for his having held schematices of the base and information pertaining to its occupants. There is no excuse for fratenizating between US troops and detainees. There is no excuse for possessing classified information outside of specified compartments. Furthermore, if he is a translater, that means he studied over at DLI, and if that is the case, after taking his DLAB, he should have reported all ties he had to anyone outside of the United States, and been responsible for updating that information quarterly. Terrorists or no, failure to offer such information is incriminating in and of itself. |
|
| Sep 25th, 2003 02:14 PM | ||
| mburbank |
There are two people I'm speaking of, both US citizens and both soldiers. The first, Air Force Senior Airman Ahmad al Halabi , was taken into custody ten weeks ago. This information was only given to the press (as far as I've been able to determine) at the detention of James Yee. I say detention because Yee has not been charged. Again, as far as I can tell, Halabi was only charged the day before yesterday, after news of his detention was released. As early as two days ago, Halabi's name had not been released. This is what leads me to at least question if we were ever have supposed to have heard of Halabi. I don't have any conclusions yet. All I suspect (and I certinbly could be wrong) is that you're about as likely to see a trial for these two as you are Jose Padilla. I think this story is very hot either way it goes. Either Camp X-ray security, which should have been investigated to the highest degree, has been compromised, or avery big screw up is in the process of becoming public. WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Following the arrests of two U.S. servicemen suspected of spying, at least two other members of the U.S. military are being closely watched in an investigation of possible espionage activities at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, officials said Wednesday. The Pentagon is broadening its investigation and trying to determine whether a conspiracy is involved, according to the officials. On Tuesday, Pentagon officials said Air Force Senior Airman Ahmad al Halabi -- who worked at the U.S. Navy base where suspected al Qaeda and Taliban terrorists are held -- had been arrested and charged with espionage and aiding the enemy. Al Halabi's attorney denied the charges against his client Wednesday. "Airman al Halabi is not a spy," Air Force Maj. James E. Key told CNN. "He is not a terrorist, and he and his family are shocked that he is accused of taking actions that would be contrary to the United States' interest." Another member of the military who also worked at Guantanamo -- Islamic chaplain and Army Capt. James Yee -- is being held on suspicion of espionage and treason in at a stockade in Charleston, South Carolina. Yee has not been charged. Investigators are trying to determine whether the men are linked in a conspiracy, official said. According to al Halabi's charge sheet, he is also accused of failing to report unauthorized communications between U.S. troops and detainees, who are designated as enemy combatants. More than 600 suspects, brought to the base after the war in Afghanistan, are housed there. Al Halabi was arrested July 23 because he allegedly had classified information on his laptop computer about detainees and facilities at the Guantanamo Bay base, Pentagon officials said. He is being held at Vandenberg Air Force Base in California. An American of Syrian descent, al Halabi allegedly e-mailed information to people in Syria that included details about the base's flight schedule, officials said. Al Halabi was charged with 11 counts of failing to obey a lawful general order or regulation; three counts of aiding the enemy, four counts of espionage; nine counts of making a false statement; bank fraud and violations of the Federal Espionage Act. Al Halabi served nine months at Guantanamo Bay as a translator and was arrested about seven weeks before Yee was taken into custody. Military authorities took Yee into custody September 10 at the naval air station in Jacksonville, Florida, while he was in possession of classified documents "that a chaplain shouldn't have," said an official who spoke on condition of anonymity. The official said the documents included "diagrams of the cells and the facilities at Guantanamo." In addition, Yee is suspected of having ties to radical Muslims in the United States who are under investigation, the official said. |
|
| Sep 24th, 2003 06:41 PM | ||
| Abcdxxxx | Burbank - You keep talking about this "citizen and soldier" vanishing. So far he's one of the few people on that island directly linked to a named criminal offense. We know who he is, and what he is accused of doing. So isn't it more likely that the US military wants us to know what went on for whatever agenda reasonings they have? The citizens and soldiers that are going to vanish, aren't going to be people you've ever heard of in a Reuters report. | |
| Sep 24th, 2003 12:07 PM | ||
| mburbank | It's pretty easy, really, but thanks for being so concerned, Martha. | |
| Sep 24th, 2003 11:56 AM | ||
| VinceZeb | It must cramp your brain to think up all of those clever metaphors and analogies, Max. | |
| Sep 24th, 2003 11:50 AM | ||
| mburbank |
Yeah, I know, you're Liberatarian about your right to post porn. You're not even a good conservative, Linda. You're a yippy little chi hua hua that thinks it's a big dog. You do exactly as your told barking as loud as you can while trembling and hiding under the couch. |
|
| Sep 24th, 2003 11:40 AM | ||
| kellychaos | Often, under the guise of a "security risk", the proceedings of such trials remain "confidential". So it goes. :/ | |
| Sep 24th, 2003 11:39 AM | ||
| VinceZeb | I never said I was a libertarian. I said I was a conservative with libertarian leanings. Get it right. Or extreme left, as in your case. | |
| Sep 24th, 2003 11:36 AM | ||
| mburbank |
Kelly, don't let that make you feel bad about what you just said. Having Vinth agree with you or support you in any way about annything doesn't automatically make you wrong, or taint you personally in any way. It's just painful, and it passes. Like Kidney Stones. I'm aware of UMCJ, and I know soldiers are subject to it, something an actual Liberatarian would reject. But then I'm not. I didn't get any of my info from the ACLU, and they have their own axe to grind. I fully admit the possability that these guys are dangerous terrorists. But, if that's true, it means our hughest levels of military security suck, which is a little scary. And we'll never know. If courts marshall are carrried out, I'll be very surprised, and they will almost certainly be secret. |
|
| Sep 24th, 2003 11:36 AM | ||
| VinceZeb |
Quote:
|
|
| Sep 24th, 2003 11:32 AM | ||
| kellychaos | Shhhh Vinth ... adults are speaking. | |
| Sep 24th, 2003 11:29 AM | ||
| VinceZeb | Kelly, the UCMJ is great. If he is guilty, he is dead. Woo-freakin-hoo. | |
| Sep 24th, 2003 11:26 AM | ||
| kellychaos | Max, as good as your intentions are, I'd like to play devil's advocate and have you remember that this soldier's civil rights are under the jurisdiction of the UCMJ (Uniform Code Of Military Justice) and, therefore, more limited. While the info that the limited and varied breeches of security may have culled may seem, at best, laughable to you when taken individually; may actually form a nice, whole coherent puzzle when given to the right sources. Just something as trivial as providing baklava, news from home, ect to the troops is an immense morale boost to soldiers who've been denied such for a while and can give them the fortitude to go on resisting. I'm not sure of who all they're detaining there and for what reason and neither are you. What I am sure of is that I'm loathe to take an organization like the ACLU at their word when they may well be just as slanted as their military PAO counterparts. | |
| This thread has more than 25 replies. Click here to review the whole thread. | ||
