|
||||||
| FAQ | Members List | Calendar | Today's Posts | Search |
Topic Review (Newest First)
|
| Dec 22nd, 2003 05:40 AM | ||||
| Supafly345 | A quarter of a million dollars was found with him to pay off families of suicide bombers. | |||
| Dec 22nd, 2003 05:33 AM | ||||
| Abcdxxxx |
A few websites posted early theories suggesting Saddam was a prisoner in that hole, the day he was found. It seems Iraqi's are prone to hanging out in these holes a lot when they need to hide, and that "rat holes" are common.... only they usually have two entrance/exit points, instead of Saddam's meager one ice box lid into the ground design. Perhaps the cash, and some bargaining power meant more to the Kurds then his murder... and a back end deal promising an eventual execution under the Iraqi's jurisdiction wouldn't have hurt. So the real mystery would be where and how the Kurds really found Saddam, and what was the story with the fresh stash of US bills found near his hole? |
|||
| Dec 22nd, 2003 03:52 AM | ||||
| ziggytrix | I can't believe Kurds caught him, and turned him over alive. | |||
| Dec 22nd, 2003 01:48 AM | ||||
| KevinTheOmnivore |
Quote:
We got him: Kurds say they caught Saddam By Paul McGeough, Herald Correspondent in Baghdad December 22, 2003 Washington's claims that brilliant US intelligence work led to the capture of Saddam Hussein are being challenged by reports sourced in Iraq's Kurdish media claiming that its militia set the circumstances in which the US merely had to go to a farm identified by the Kurds to bag the fugitive former president. The first media account of the December 13 arrest was aired by a Tehran-based news agency. American forces took Saddam into custody around 8.30pm local time, but sat on the news until 3pm the next day. However, in the early hours of Sunday, a Kurdish language wire service reported explicitly: "Saddam Hussein was captured by the Patriotic Union of Kurdistan. A special intelligence unit led by Qusrat Rasul Ali, a high-ranking member of the PUK, found Saddam Hussein in the city of Tikrit, his birthplace. "Qusrat's team was accompanied by a group of US soldiers. Further details of the capture will emerge during the day; but the global Kurdish party is about to begin!" The head of the PUK, Jalal Talabani, was in the Iranian capital en route to Europe. The Western media in Baghdad were electrified by the Iranian agency's revelation, but as reports of the arrest built, they relied almost exclusively on accounts from US military and intelligence organisations, starting with the words of the US-appointed administrator of Iraq, Paul Bremer: "Ladies and gentlemen: we got 'im". US officials said that they had extracted the vital piece of information on Saddam's whereabouts from one of the 20 suspects around 5.30pm on December 13 and had immediately assembled a 600-strong force to surround the farm on which he was captured at al-Dwar, south of Tikrit. Little attention was paid to a line in Pentagon briefings that some of the Kurdish militia might have been in on what was described as a "joint operation"; or to a statement by Ahmed Chalabi, head of the Iraq National Congress, which said that Qusrat and his PUK forces had provided vital information and more. A Scottish newspaper, the Sunday Herald, quoted from an interview aired on the PUK's al-Hurriyah radio station last Wednesday, in which Adil Murad, a member of the PUK's political bureau, said that the day before Saddam's capture he was tipped off by a PUK general - Thamir al-Sultan - that Saddam would be arrested within the next 72 hours. An unnamed Western intelligence source in the Middle East was quoted in the British Sunday Express yesterday: "Saddam was not captured as a result of any American or British intelligence. We knew that someone would eventually take their revenge, it was just a matter of time." There has been no American response to the Kurdish claims. An intriguing question is why Kurdish forces were allowed to join what the US desperately needed to present as an American intelligence success - unless the Kurds had something vital to contribute to the operation so far south of their usual area of activity. A report from the PUK's northern stronghold, Suliymaniah, early last week claimed a vital intelligence breakthrough after a telephone conversation between Qusrat and Saddam's second wife, Samirah. ---- http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=stor...tain&printer=1 Saddam was held by Kurdish forces, drugged and left for US troops LONDON, (AFP) - Saddam Hussein (news - web sites) was captured by US troops only after he had been taken prisoner by Kurdish forces, drugged and abandoned ready for American soldiers to recover him, a British Sunday newspaper said. Saddam came into the hands of the Kurdish Patriotic Front after being betrayed to the group by a member of the al-Jabour tribe, whose daughter had been raped by Saddam's son Uday, leading to a blood feud, reported the Sunday Express, which quoted an unnamed senior British military intelligence officer. The newspaper said the full story of events leading up to the ousted Iraqi president's capture on December 13 near his hometown of Tikrit in northern Iraq (news - web sites), "exposes the version peddled by American spin doctors as incomplete". A former Iraqi intelligence officer, whom the Express did not name, told the paper that Saddam was held prisoner by a leader of the Kurdish Patriotic Front, which fought alongside US forces during the Iraq war, until he negotiated a deal. The deal apparently involved the group gaining political advantage in the region. An unnamed Western intelligence source in the Middle East told the Express: "Saddam was not captured as a result of any American or British intelligence. We knew that someone would eventually take their revenge, it was just a matter of time." |
|||
| Dec 14th, 2003 07:48 PM | ||||
| CastroMotorOil |
The iraqis will roast this guy alive... personally i beleive that the situation will alleivate to a degree. From what i understand this was not his only hole in the ground. SOMEONE was moving him around, probably party supporters and people with access to the resistance groups, who then spread his message. He still had some control over his supporters, but now without him, i think their cohesiveness will deteriorate. Plus, how many civiallians were still in fear of him returning, and thus either supporting him or at least not helping the US. In the WMD argument, i wonder if he will actually tell us if any are still stashed in Iraq, or if any were moved to Syria (unlikely but it still could have been done). |
|||
| Dec 14th, 2003 07:44 PM | ||||
| The One and Only... |
Quote:
Quote:
I'm fully aware that the Dems. used to be the party for the South, but during modern times, that has been the Reps. territory. At least until Viva el Dean :/. Quote:
1) The way our system is set-up favors a two party system. Example: the electorial college. One fear I have is that if the two party system were ever threatened, massive changes to the campaign finance would ensue, resulting in the death of small parties before they had a chance to really have an impact. 2) The need to increase awareness. I'm banking that most people don't even know where they truly lie on the political spectrum. Not only that, how many know about third parties outside of the Green and Reform Party, anyway? 3) The need to convince the public that their vote will count. A good way would be to give outrageous examples to defy that type of logic - say something like "if there were two candidates, but you knew that the one you wanted was going to lose, would you vote for the other one?" Anyway, we have gotten way off my original statement, which said that if people voted intelligently, they would vote for third parties. Granted, I don't know how much of that is really true, but I'll bet we would see a substantial increase in votes going towards them. |
|||
| Dec 14th, 2003 06:53 PM | ||||
| Ant10708 |
Some faulty news reporter said they had DNA evidence already. The administration clearly said that they were working on having DNA evidence provided. I'm pretty sure Saddam is going to be tried by the Iraqis. |
|||
| Dec 14th, 2003 06:30 PM | ||||
| AChimp | I wonder if the U.S. will turn Saddam over to the UN, or if it's going to be some gay, Iraqi joke trial instead. | |||
| Dec 14th, 2003 06:23 PM | ||||
| mburbank |
I agree with Proto. A year is absolutely forever in electoral terms. It's one of the main reasons I believe this really is Sadaam. I think if he'd never gotten caught, Democrats would have had political capital they don't have now. But the political capital of having captured him will be long gone, old news. Plus, they need to keep him shut up for over a year now. Suppose he has all kinds of proof that he'd never have attained power or held it without the help of the CIA? A lot of people may have forgotten how cozy we were with the Baathists pre gulf war one. Saadam may be ikely to remind them. If we keep him in an undoclosed location for over a year, that's going to raise questions on it's own. Other Points: I'm glad they caught him. I cannot believe the administration, having caught him, already has to lie about it. Bremmer said this morning they caught him yesterday, and that they already have DNA evidence that it's really him. That is simply not possible. Like lying about the Britts radio message when Bush flew in for thanksgiving, it is totally uneccesary. They are an administration of t6otally compulsive liars. While I personally think that Bush will squeak out another term, I think it's very, very niave for any of you to think that the election is not in question. I think he's very vulnerable. I think he's been a highly active conservative WAY WAY too the right of where the the electorate actually is. I think the rosy news about the economy is like me having no job and putting a new car on my kids credit card. I think a lot of people out of work aren't going to believe the economy is doing well until they're working again, and that may not happen in the next year. I think this is a spooky as hell adminsitration that's done a lot of VERY ugly shit and a lot of shoes can drop in a year. I'd aalso remind you all that while Nixon won a second term in a landslide it didn't last very long. |
|||
| Dec 14th, 2003 06:00 PM | ||||
| Protoclown | I still say a LOT can happen in a year, and the 2004 election is far from determined yet. | |||
| Dec 14th, 2003 05:48 PM | ||||
| soundtest | Finally! They caught that bastard behind the 9/11 attacks! Oops, my mistake... he was the one with the weapons of mass destruction... waitaminute... | |||
| Dec 14th, 2003 05:34 PM | ||||
| Drew Katsikas | I can't wait for Ranxer to post an elabortae "legit" conspiracy theory that's been developed within the past 24 hours. | |||
| Dec 14th, 2003 05:26 PM | ||||
| Ant10708 | Doesn't really matter. He's going to live. | |||
| Dec 14th, 2003 05:19 PM | ||||
| FS |
I'm glad for the people that lived in fear of him that he's now caught. I'm sure it will alleviate the situation in Iraq to some degree, but how strongly will probably depend on the mindset of Saddam's remaining supporters and what's going to happen to Saddam. Question: live or die? There's so many factors to take into account from here on. As for myself, on one hand I'm still opposed to the death penalty, but when confronted with news footage of everything he's done, I don't know if even I think this man should live. 
|
|||
| Dec 14th, 2003 04:03 PM | ||||
| KevinTheOmnivore |
Quote:
Quote:
I think your comment about the Dems. as an interest group based party-- it's slightly true, but not entirely. That is more a result of the 60s and New Left 70s, when the lower-class/blue collar types that traditionally voted Democrat sort of turned away for good. I'm Irish Catholic, and my family has a long Democratic tradition, but they haven't actually voted Democratic in years. They are, for all intensive purposes, "National Liberals," of the FDR/Truman/LBJ ilk. I think you're right, if both parties are "big tent" parties as it's popularly put, then the Republicans are more cohesive than the Democrats. But, IMO, the Right has ALWAYS been better at that. It was Pat Robertson's and Newt Gingrich's "no enemies to the Right" policy in the early 90's that led to the Congressional take over. The Dems. are a big tent with a lot of pissed off clowns and lion tamers (to keep with the circus analogy), all pulling back and forth for power. I personally prefer that party model, and find two large, stagnant, overly-bureacratic parties to be dull and even dangerous for civic health. The Left is too divisive, too full of intellectuals and know-it-alls who all have the solutions to everything. That makes a popular front difficult. Quote:
Whoo! Haven't posted that much in a long time.... |
|||
| Dec 14th, 2003 03:16 PM | ||||
| MisSFiT |
Of course there will be retailiation against the U.S. for the few people that truly believed in Sadam. But were they doing it because they were afraid? Only time will tell if the Gorrilla Warefare will slow down and hopefully cease altogether. I hope the people of Iraq will realize what a great accomplishment this is and move forward. We are all just one step toward One World Government!! I can't wait! 
|
|||
| Dec 14th, 2003 02:07 PM | ||||
| The One and Only... |
Quote:
Take, for example, the Republican Party. How many ideologically moderate libertarians and conservatives voted for Bush despite better suited alternatives (i.e. Reform Party, Libertarian Party)? Now, the reason I mention the Democratic Party is due to the fact that it does not have a very well established base as far as political theory. The Republican Party does: it has favored neoconservativism in recent years. The DP has a greater variety - environmentalists and supporters of big labor are both left-wing, but sometimes come into conflict. I think that a few dominant, broad parties would arise out of the chaos that followed so as to ensure enough support to be strong. On the other hand, I think that a few of them would be very different from the ones that we have now. |
|||
| Dec 14th, 2003 01:52 PM | ||||
| ScruU2wice |
misinformed or uninformed 
|
|||
| Dec 14th, 2003 01:43 PM | ||||
| HickMan |
Quote:
|
|||
| Dec 14th, 2003 01:28 PM | ||||
| El Blanco |
And on the topic of body doubles: A few weeks after he goes into hiding, all of his body doubles have been gathered to a secret meeting. Saddam's rep starts the meeting and they get down to bussiness. "I have good news and bad news." The doubles all groan. "The good news: Saddam is still alive so you all still have your jobs." The doubles rejoice. "The bad news: He lost an arm." |
|||
| Dec 14th, 2003 01:18 PM | ||||
| ScruU2wice |
i was just playing with words bush one the election fair and square i know that. the system just works that way and bitching about it will do nothing. But just because people people haven't been talking about bush's policy with reconstruction contracts doesn't mean its not an issue bugging the white house. Criticism over the bush's policy, and haliburtons admitted overpricing in iraq, makes this a pretty oppertune time to announce the capture of saddam |
|||
| Dec 14th, 2003 01:05 PM | ||||
| El Blanco |
Quote:
Quote:
|
|||
| Dec 14th, 2003 12:32 PM | ||||
| Abcdxxxx |
"I'm not sure if the Baathist gov't or Saddam was supporting any other terrorist in the Middle east or elsewhere in the world. I haven't hear5d anything about that, so I won't say anything about that for now." Seriously, you need to spend a lot of time on google. Saddam had plenty to do with plenty of terrorists all over the place. It's never even been disputed that Saddam financed the occupation of Lebanon, and housed a country club full of guys like Abu Nidal. The Baathist party are still alive and well operating in Syria, which is still a hotbed of terrorist activity. A huge part of the resistance was from Syria and Iran, so it's going to heat up if anything. Meanwhile, we're still not going after the Saudi's. |
|||
| Dec 14th, 2003 12:23 PM | ||||
| ScruU2wice |
Quote:
I doubt this is going to change anything in iraq, and buch admits it himself. Saddam could not have coordinated the attacks on coalition forces so those attacks will continue. Some people feared the return of Saddam and now they are going to question why the US are still there. And the people who support Saddam aren't just going to quit and neither are going to be the people who have no affiliation with saddam and just a vendetta against america. Furthermore the reason bush scared us into war was the fact that america was going to attack us with WMD. and those haven't been found (yet). The capture of saddam will not neutralize that threat, if it exists. We can't say what effect these events will have on the future with such a narrow scope right now but all i can say is there is no complete victory... Unfortunately, the combination of all these things and the narrow grasp of world affairs by the american people, has solidified another bush victory in 2004 |
|||
| Dec 14th, 2003 12:14 PM | ||||
| Suck 'n' Fuck |
Important questions: Do you think the armed resistance against the occupying soldiers in Iraq will decrease? Why or why not? I think it will stay about the same, or possibly increase. As someone said earlier, Saddam looks like he's been living in some hole in the ground. I don't think he was organizing or co-ordinating any resistance efforts against the occupation in Iraq because that would require high tech communications equipment like cell phones, laptopswith internet connections, etc. If Saddam was using that kind of equipment to organize a resistance, then the US would have caught him way sooner because they would have intercepted the signals. Do you think that this will reduce violence in the Middle East or global "terrorism?" Why or why not? I think that it will not affect the level of violence on the Middle east, or the amount of global "terrorism." Saddam Hussien , or the former Baathist government of Iraq had no links to Al Qaeda. Osama called Saddam an infidel in one of bin Laden's videos. It's obvious they hate each other and there is very little chance that they would form an alliance. I'm not sure if the Baathist gov't or Saddam was supporting any other terrorist in the Middle east or elsewhere in the world. I haven't hear5d anything about that, so I won't say anything about that for now. If anybody knows if this is true or false, could they link me to a story from a reputable site? Discuss. Edit: I wonder if he'll get a trial, and if he will get one, will it be a fair trial? |
|||
| This thread has more than 25 replies. Click here to review the whole thread. | ||||
