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Topic Review (Newest First)
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| May 25th, 2004 01:03 PM | ||
| mburbank |
WHAT?!?! Vinth making a statement he is in no position to back up?!? UNHEARD OF!!! Why, it's as odd as... 3/26/04 9:29 AM CST Those Wacky Japanese..... |
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| May 25th, 2004 12:42 PM | ||
| sspadowsky | Seems to me that you haven't been here for four years, so you don't know what the fuck you're talking about. | |
| May 25th, 2004 09:45 AM | ||
| VinceZeb |
Quote:
Ass. |
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| May 24th, 2004 06:29 PM | ||
| Ronnie Raygun | In this case I'll believe our military before I'll believe Al Jizz. | |
| May 24th, 2004 05:24 PM | ||
| sspadowsky |
I dunno about that, but it's definitely enough time for you to place your intellect on the shelf and be a complete dumbass. Face it, Ronnie. Sometimes, we are the bad guys. |
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| May 24th, 2004 04:34 PM | ||
| Ronnie Raygun |
....sounds like the tape might have been at least a few days old.... At least enough time for the wedding party to be replaced with terrorists... |
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| May 24th, 2004 03:22 PM | ||
| sspadowsky |
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/5045772/ Videotape shows revelers at celebration Survivors of May 19 airstrike cast doubt on U.S. account Anja Niedringhaus / AP The Associated Press Updated: 9:49 p.m. ET May 23, 2004 RAMADI, Iraq - The bride arrives in a white pickup truck and is quickly ushered into a house by a group of women. Outside, men recline on brightly colored silk pillows, relaxing on the carpeted floor of a large goat-hair tent as boys dance to tribal songs. The videotape obtained Sunday by Associated Press Television News captures a wedding party that survivors say was later attacked by U.S. planes early Wednesday, killing up to 45 people. The dead included the cameraman, Yasser Shawkat Abdullah, hired to record the festivities, which ended Tuesday night before the planes struck. The U.S. military says it is investigating the attack, which took place in the village of Mogr el-Deeb about five miles from the Syrian border, but that all evidence so far indicates the target was a safehouse for foreign fighters. “There was no evidence of a wedding: no decorations, no musical instruments found, no large quantities of food or leftover servings one would expect from a wedding celebration,” Brig. Gen. Mark Kimmitt said Saturday. “There may have been some kind of celebration. Bad people have celebrations, too.” The artifacts of celebration But video that APTN shot a day after the attack shows fragments of musical instruments, pots and pans and brightly colored beddings used for celebrations, scattered around the bombed out tent. The wedding videotape shows a dozen white pickup trucks speeding through the desert escorting the bridal car — decorated with colorful ribbons. The bride wears a Western-style white bridal dress and veil. The camera captures her stepping out of the car but does not show a close-up. An AP reporter and photographer, who interviewed more than a dozen survivors a day after the bombing, were able to identify many of them on the wedding party video — which runs for several hours. APTN also traveled to Mogr el-Deeb, 250 miles west of Ramadi, the day after the attack to film what the survivors said was the wedding site. A devastated building and remnants of the tent, pots and pans could be seen, along with bits of what appeared to be the remnants of ordnance, one of which bore the marking “ATU-35,” similar to those on U.S. bombs. A water tanker truck can be seen in both the video shot by APTN and the wedding tape obtained from a cousin of the groom. The endless party The singing and dancing seems to go on forever at the all-male tent set up in the garden of the host, Rikad Nayef, for the wedding of his son, Azhad, and the bride Rutbah Sabah. The men later move to the porch when darkness falls, apparently taking advantage of the cool night weather. Children, mainly boys, sit on their fathers’ laps; men smoke an Arab water pipe, finger worry beads and chat with one another. It looks like a typical, gender-segregated tribal desert wedding. As expected, women are out of sight — but according to survivors, they danced to the music of Hussein al-Ali, a popular Baghdad wedding singer hired for the festivities. Al-Ali was buried in Baghdad on Thursday. The organist, before and after Prominently displayed on the videotape was a stocky man with close-cropped hair playing an electric organ. Another tape, filmed a day later in Ramadi and obtained by APTN, showed the musician lying dead in a burial shroud — his face clearly visible and wearing the same tan shirt as he wore when he performed. As the musicians played, young men milled about, most dressed in traditional white robes. Young men swayed in tribal dances to the monotonous tones of traditional Arabic music. Two children — a boy and a girl — held hands, dancing and smiling. Women are rarely filmed at such occasions, and they appear only in distant glimpses. Kimmitt said U.S. troops who swept through the area found rifles, machine guns, foreign passports, bedding, syringes and other items that suggested the site was used by foreigners infiltrating from Syria. The videotape showed no weapons, although they are common among rural Iraqis. U.S. denies finding children Kimmitt has denied finding evidence that any children died in the raid although a “handful of women” — perhaps four to six — were “caught up in the engagement.” “They may have died from some of the fire that came from the aircraft,” he told reporters Friday. However, an AP reporter obtained names of at least 10 children who relatives said had died. Bodies of five of them were filmed by APTN when the survivors took them to Ramadi for burial Wednesday. Iraqi officials said at least 13 children were killed. Four days after the attack, the memories of the survivors remain painful — as are their injuries. Haleema Shihab, 32, one of the three wives of Rikad Nayef, said that as the first bombs fell, she grabbed her seven-month old son, Yousef, and clutching the hands of her 5-year-old son, Hamza, started running. Her 15-year-old son, Ali, sprinted alongside her. They managed to run for several yards when she fell, her leg fractured. “Hamza was yelling, ‘mommy,”’ Shihab, recalled. “Ali said he was hurt and that he was bleeding. That’s the last time I heard him.” Then another shell fell and injured Shihab’s left arm. Laughing soldiers? “Hamza fell from my hand and was gone. Only Yousef stayed in my arms. Ali had been hit and was killed. I couldn’t go back,” she said from her hospital bed in Ramadi. Her arm was in a cast. She and her stepdaughter, Iqbal — who had caught up with her — hid in a bomb crater. “We were bleeding from 3 a.m. until sunrise,” Shihab said. Soon American soldiers came. One of them kicked her to see if she was alive, she said. “I pretended I was dead so he wouldn’t kill me,” said Shihab. She said the soldier was laughing. When Yousef cried, the soldier said: “’No, stop,” said Shihab. Fourteen-year-old Moza, Shihab’s stepdaughter, lies on another bed of the hospital room. She was hurt in the leg and cries. Her relatives haven’t told her yet that her mother, Sumaya, is dead. “I fear she’s dead,” Moza said of her mother. “I’m worried about her.” Moza was sleeping on one side of the porch next to her sisters Siham, Subha and Zohra while her mother slept on the other end. There were many others on the porch, her cousins, stepmothers and other female relatives. Four sisters When the first shell fell, Moza and her sisters, Subha, Fatima and Siham ran off together. Moza was holding Subha’s hand. “I don’t know where Fatima and my mom were. Siham got hit. She died. I saw Zohra’s head gone. I lost consciousness,” said Moza, covering her mouth with the end of her headscarf. Her sister Iqbal, lay in pain on the bed next to her. Her other sister, Subha, was on the upper floor of the hospital, in the same room with 2-year-Khoolood. Her small body was bandaged and a tube inserted in her side drained her liver. Her ankle was bandaged. A red ribbon was tied to her curly hair. Only she and her older brother, Faisal, survived from their immediate family. Her parents and four sisters and brothers were all killed. In all, 27 members of Rikad Nayef’s extended family died — most of them children and women, the family said. © 2004 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed. |
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| May 21st, 2004 09:21 AM | ||
| mburbank |
I personally think we're way better than Al Quaeda. But Mike Tyson is way better than Al Quaeda, and he bit a guys ear off. What we're like compared to Al Quaeda isn't my concern. I'm a friggin' angel compared to Al Quaeda, but I'm not going to judge my worth on that curve, thanks. 'AMERICA! KILLING LESS INNOCENT PEOPLE, AND MOSTLY NOT ON PURPOSE!' |
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| May 20th, 2004 07:16 PM | ||
| Ronnie Raygun |
Why is that Mesobe? Do you think we are worse than Al Queda or at least just as bad? |
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| May 20th, 2004 07:10 PM | ||
| mesobe |
Quote:
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| May 20th, 2004 06:53 PM | ||
| Ronnie Raygun |
Blanco, you will because you're using common sense have don't have an agenda. They won't because it hurts their cause if they don't exploit the words of our enemies. |
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| May 20th, 2004 06:49 PM | ||
| El Blanco |
I agree. It just is quite possible that it is a story made by opposition forces. When you have the word of our military intel vs the word of local rabble rousers, its a tough call, but I'm going to give our guys the benefit of the doubt until proven wrong. |
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| May 20th, 2004 06:38 PM | ||
| sspadowsky |
I don't disagree with that at all, Blanco. Max said something recently that I think captures the single most important aspect of the occupation: We have to have the credibility, we have to truly rise above the abuse and torture, seperate ourselves from that behavior, if we want to 'win hearts and minds.' If we are to convince these people that our way of doing things is best, then we have to lead by example, and not bullshit, cover up, abuse power, etc. We have to be the Boy Scouts. |
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| May 20th, 2004 06:37 PM | ||
| Sethomas | Finally, a decisive justification for EVERYTHING! | |
| May 20th, 2004 06:32 PM | ||
| El Blanco | Ya, but sspad, its not like Muslim leaders over there haven't been caught bullshitting either. | |
| May 20th, 2004 06:32 PM | ||
| sspadowsky | Check inside your ass, right next to your head. Maybe some of them are in there. | |
| May 20th, 2004 06:29 PM | ||
| Ronnie Raygun | Ok then, where are the crediblity issues? | |
| May 20th, 2004 06:25 PM | ||
| sspadowsky |
Quote:
The military says a lot of shit, and it's surprising how often what they say is not true. Pull your head out, Raygun. |
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| May 20th, 2004 05:46 PM | ||
| Ronnie Raygun | The military ststed that it was a safe house. Are you saying that the military is anti democrat....and if they are, why do you think they are? | |
| May 20th, 2004 11:14 AM | ||
| Cosmo Electrolux |
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| May 20th, 2004 10:15 AM | ||
| mburbank |
Nadlo: From the artcile you just posted: "That official reiterated that the objective was a suspected hideout, and had no information about a wedding party." Does that say to you that it wasn't a wedding party? You may we recall, the wedding party we blew up in Afghanistan turned out to be a wedding party. If you thought I was implying that we deliberately took out a wedding party in either Iraq or Afghanistan, that would be your problem. I don't think killing lots of people including children at a wedding party is part of our strategy. Who knows, maybe it will turn out all to be a big lie and really all we killed were terrorists, as opposed to that time in Afghanistan where we killed a lot of people at a wedding party. I'm just saying that if it turns out that we did accidentally kill a lot of epopel at a wedding party, that would turn out to be a bad thing for US PR, not to mention how diifcult it is for all the dead wedding guests. That's the thing about invading and occupying a country and then trying to put down an insurgency, it's puts you in this very, very difficult position where you start out trying to do your job and end up killing a lot of wedding guests. Surviving wedding party guests don't take "oops. Sorry." as being enough, and since we haven't said "Oops. Sorry." yet, like we did in Afghanistan, if it turns out this was a wedding party, I'll bet those folks are really upset. "Blah, Blah, Blah, Max. They found weapins and money nd sattelite gear." Everyone in Iraq has weapons. Everyone on the border with Syria has money in both currencys. Everyone in the middle east who lives away from population centers has sattelite gear. "Uhmmm... Blah, blah, blah, Max." |
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| May 20th, 2004 12:15 AM | ||
| ArrowX |
I'm watching the video now. Looks like another one of your guy will lose another head 
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| May 19th, 2004 08:59 PM | ||
| Ronnie Raygun | It would bite Americans but help democratic politicians because it would give them political ammo. | |
| May 19th, 2004 08:10 PM | ||
| El Blanco | a, just up and leaving can't possibly have any blowback. Its not like we did that to another Muslim back in the early 1980s. I can't imagine how that would come back to bite us. | |
| May 19th, 2004 07:41 PM | ||
| Cosmo Electrolux | The war is still a bad idea and we should get the fuck out. | |
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