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Topic Review (Newest First)
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| Jul 12th, 2005 05:59 PM | ||||
| sadie |
to not own anything, i sure do have a lot of stuff. 
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| Jul 12th, 2005 05:25 PM | ||||
| marmielake | http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=45029 | |||
| Jul 12th, 2005 01:25 PM | ||||
| ziggytrix | if you owned something, you wouldn't still be paying for it sadie. sounds more like a bank owns something. | |||
| Jul 12th, 2005 12:16 AM | ||||
| sadie |
if i don't own anything, why do i have to fork over all this money every month?
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| Jul 11th, 2005 07:57 PM | ||||
| KevinTheOmnivore |
Okay, so Fund does in fact pull the race card in this op-ed, so to speak. But I think he makes a solid point, and pretty clearly disputes the notion that the Kelo case sets absolutely no precedent for other land seizures throughout the country. It's also important to point out the bi-partisan coalitions this has created. It's certainly worth noting, I mean heck, I'm posting an article by John Fund.  http://www.opinionjournal.com/diary/?id=110006941 Property Rights Are Civil Rights Opposition to the Kelo decision crosses racial and party lines. Monday, July 11, 2005 12:01 a.m. In 1954 the Supreme Court declared in Brown v. Board of Education that racial segregation in public schools was unconstitutional. But that same year it also ruled in Berman v. Parker that government's power of eminent domain could be used to seize property in order to tear down "blighted" areas. It soon became clear that too often urban renewal really meant "Negro removal," as cities increasingly razed stable neighborhoods to benefit powerful interests. That helps explain why 50 years later so many minority groups are furious at the Supreme Court's decision last month to build on the Berman precedent and give government a green light to take private property that isn't "blighted" if it can be justified in the name of economic development. Within a week of the Supreme Court's 5-4 decision in Kelo v. New London, Rep. John Conyers, the ranking Democrat on the House Judiciary Committee and the longest-serving member of the Congressional Black Caucus, pronounced himself "shocked" to be joining with conservatives in backing a bill to bar federal funds from being used to make improvements on any lands seized for private development. He noted that the NAACP, Operation PUSH and the Leadership Conference on Civil Rights all believe "this court opinion makes it too easy for private property to be taken and [this is a practice] that has been used historically to target the poor, people of color and the elderly." The measure blocking federal funds passed the House by 231-189. A companion resolution condemning the Kelo decision was approved 365-33. Only 10 of the 43 members of the Congressional Black Caucus and only two members of the Congrssional Hispanic Caucus voted against the latter measure. Many Democrats who used to scoff at conservative fears about activist judges are now joining their barricades when it comes to eminent domain. "In a way this ruling is about civil rights because it interferes with your right to own and keep your property," says Wilhelmina Leigh, a research analyst with the Joint Center for Political and Economic Studies in Washington. "It means you have to hope and trust in the goodness of other human beings that if you buy real estate that you will be allowed to keep it." Few appear to be willing to trust government on this issue, which is why the Kelo decision has touched off such a populist reaction against it. Martin Luther King III, a former president of the Southern Christian Leadership Conference, says that "eminent domain should only be used for true public projects, not to take from one private owner to give to another wealthier private owner." In 2001 he joined with the free-market Institute for Justice (which represented the Kelo plaintiffs) to stop the state of Mississippi from uprooting homeowners to make room for a Nissan truck factory. After he compared the state's actions to "a giant stepping on a grasshopper," public opposition to the taking mounted. The state finally announced that Nissan had come up with a way to redesign its facility so that the homeowners wouldn't have to leave. Justice Sandra Day O'Connor warned in her Kelo dissent "all private property is now vulnerable to being taken and transferred to another private owner, so long as it might be upgraded." She added that the decision's effect is to "wash out any distinction between private and public use of property--and thereby effectively to delete the words 'for public use' from the Takings Clause of the Fifth Amendment." In her outraged dissent, Justice O'Connor failed to note that the Supreme Court's erosion of property rights began a long time ago. Before the 1954 Berman decision, with some exceptions, private property could be taken through eminent domain only for public uses. In Berman, however, the court declared the words "public use" to mean "public purpose," as defined by local officials. Soon the definition of "blight" became highly elastic, as governments began condemning working- and middle-class neighborhoods simply because they were desired by private interests. As Justice Clarence Thomas noted in his dissent in Kelo: "Of all the families displaced by urban renewal from 1949 through 1963, 63 percent of those whose race was known were nonwhite, and of these families, 56 percent of nonwhites and 38 percent of whites had incomes low enough to qualify for public housing, which, however, was seldom available to them." The definition of a "blighted" area eventually became so expansive that it 1981 the Michigan Supreme Court allowed the city of Detroit to raze a stable neighborhood called Poletown to make way for a General Motors plant. The Michigan Supreme Court finally repudiated that decision last year, in a ruling that noted that property rights would no longer exist in America if cities could simply take property when they found a use that yielded higher taxes or other benefits. By contrast, the U.S. Supreme Court has now decided not to overturn its Berman precedent and indeed has expanded the deference it gives to local governments to determine what "public use" means. But states and localities are free to take their own steps to preserve private property rights. Nine states--Arkansas, Florida, Illinois, Kentucky, Maine, Michigan, Montana, South Carolina and Washington--already forbid the use of eminent domain for economic development except in narrow circumstances. The Institute for Justice has launched a $3 million "Hands Off My Home" campaign to convince other states to join them. In Georgia, Gov. Sonny Perdue is demanding a full review of eminent domain. The Texas Legislature has already debated a constitutional amendment that would ban the use of eminent domain solely for economic purposes. No one argues that struggling cities or states don't have a right to improve themselves through redevelopment. But the new civil-rights coalition forming in reaction to the Kelo decision says that need can't justify land seizures from which politically connected players stand to gain at the expense of individual civil rights. If the half-century since Brown v. Board of Education has taught us anything, it is that some rights are and must remain nonnegotiable. Copyright © 2005 Dow Jones & Company, Inc. All Rights Reserved. |
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| Jun 27th, 2005 05:19 PM | ||||
| kellychaos | Let's say the government allows you to remain and said factory gets built around you. Your property value goes down and you suffer when you could have relinquished your home at fair market value if you had went along with the plan from the jump street. You can stop the machine, man! | |||
| Jun 27th, 2005 04:55 PM | ||||
| ziggytrix |
http://www.trinityrivervision.org/index.asp Their doing a similar thing in Ft. Worth, but so they can move a river and sell the seized land to developers. A family owned foundry that is run by some friends of ours is one of the businesses being moved out to make room for this. An 80 year old family business is just being written off and 20 people are gonna lose their jobs, unless you know a construction agency that will build a new iron foundry for $10,000 (fed guidelines limit compensation to this amount for a business). It's disgusting. And they do it all under the pretense of developing the city, but if you follow the money, you'll find most of it going to a few people or businesses.
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| Jun 27th, 2005 03:42 PM | ||||
| hammered_soul |
Re: you dont own anything Quote:
I wonder if you can, No need for greed or hunger, A brotherhood of man, Imagine all the people Sharing all the world... We're getting closer |
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| Jun 26th, 2005 10:41 PM | ||||
| Emu |
I finally get your sig, Zhukov. 
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| Jun 26th, 2005 10:37 PM | ||||
| Zhukov |
Maybe a better law would be to take unused land from corporations and give it to the local community??
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| Jun 26th, 2005 10:31 PM | ||||
| Big Papa Goat |
Quote:
Not that I really agree with that kind of liberal stance on this kind of issue, in principle I think it's alright for a government to limit individual rights for the good of the community. |
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| Jun 26th, 2005 02:36 PM | ||||
| Rez |
Quote:
i think this is the first time i ever agreed with rhenquist, thomas, AND scalia. wierd. EDIT: Quote:
out of curiosity where did you find it? i actually slogged through a lot of that shit because i couldn't believe myself, but i didnt see anywhere that this was not meant to set a precedent. |
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| Jun 26th, 2005 01:40 PM | ||||
| Emu | Am I the only one who finds SCOTUS to be an hilarious word? | |||
| Jun 26th, 2005 01:26 PM | ||||
| El Blanco |
How was the desicion made before ity got to SCOTUS? Did the city council(elected officials) decide it? Quote:
Quote:
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| Jun 26th, 2005 12:16 PM | ||||
| KevinTheOmnivore |
Again with the terrible comparison. 1. This ruling isn't going to hurt just 7 homes. 2. I'm not sure what definition of "democracy" you're working with, but I'm pretty sure having the SCOTUS play with the bill of rights in order to justify screwing 7 families out of their homes isn't democracy. Again, we're talking about real people getting really screwed for the sake of hypothetical people who might get a job at this factory, which might stay there for more than ten years if the tax breaks are right. |
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| Jun 26th, 2005 12:14 PM | ||||
| The One and Only... | Just another peg against government if you ask me. | |||
| Jun 26th, 2005 11:05 AM | ||||
| El Blanco |
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
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| Jun 26th, 2005 12:53 AM | ||||
| KevinTheOmnivore |
And in response to this..... Quote:
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| Jun 26th, 2005 12:49 AM | ||||
| KevinTheOmnivore |
What exactly are you trying to save? Isn't it counter-productive to make the very people you hope to help homeless? The policy is a perversion of the 5th amendment, among other things. Is that spot the absolute only location that such a factory might go? Furthermore, on a bit of a tangent, couldn't policy makers use this crap as a way to kick people out of their homes and build sporting arenas?? I mean, regardless of the fact that most studies show arenas provide very little for the community, couldn't the "public good" be left open to horrid interpretation by this ruling....? |
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| Jun 26th, 2005 12:45 AM | ||||
| ziggytrix |
Don't the people in those houses have a right to own property? I guess the bit that bugs me most is are these people really getting what they would need to cover moving expenses, an equitable home elsewhere, or are they getting screwed over because the houses won't appraise for shit anyway? The 5th Amendment says they get "just compensation" but some of these land use "purchases" aren't just, and there is no appeal, no negotiation, and it just makes me mad. 
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| Jun 26th, 2005 12:38 AM | ||||
| El Blanco |
I said I disagreed with the descicion. But, I also realized why it was made. So, you think because it can be abused, NL should be left to rot away? Don't the people of the town have the right to try and save themselves? How else does that happen without a bussiness coming and expanding, bringing jobs with it? |
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| Jun 25th, 2005 09:37 PM | ||||
| kahljorn |
YEA!
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| Jun 25th, 2005 07:27 PM | ||||
| KevinTheOmnivore |
It's refreshing to see that the so-called conservatives of the board have such great faith in the entrepreneurial capabilities of government.  Taking land from people with the hope of helping lots of people isn't called democracy, it's called speculation, and it's being done at the expense of real people, as oppsed to the hypothetical ones who might benefit from the factory that gets built there (and we ALL know that a company with tax breaks out their asses will save New London, I mean, look at upstate NY! ).
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| Jun 24th, 2005 08:34 PM | ||||
| ItalianStereotype | this has been around FOREVER. it's a leftover from the old British Imperial system. my family used to own the land around Wall Street, but the government seized the property early on. I'm not sure if it was the British or the early American government that did it though. | |||
| Jun 24th, 2005 08:23 PM | ||||
| kahljorn | that's how they work, though. They simply find an injustice to "Alleviate", get people all worked up by it and show them why it needs to be done, then create laws that allow them to abuse anybody they please. Patriot act. That one tax thing | |||
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