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Topic Review (Newest First)
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| Jul 25th, 2006 02:49 PM | ||
| kahljorn |
"I like Cuomo, he's an intellectual who had a hard time figuring out how to be a politician. I actually just had to write a tediously long paper on one of his races, so bleh. " I agree that he's an intellectual, I love his stances. Like when he talks about the seperation between what we believe is morally right and wrong and the laws that may be developed based on it, and how those laws themselves have political, economical and social ramifications that we can't necessarily resolve or understand by morality alone. That we should analyze what laws we're going to create, because they will actually have a REAL LIFE EFFECT that has absolutely nothing to do with morality itself. Seems realistic, to me. The idea that politics and laws of the governing body actually shape the intellectual and moral bodies of it's populace, to me, should be the forefront to all forms of government. What does a government govern? A nation. What is a nation? A bunch of people. The reason government was established was to protect these people, and furnish a functioning establishment- through economy, morality, philosophy and whatever means are necessary to preserve their lives and functional, happy, existence. Isn't that what everything boils down to, really? Trying to survive? Everything after the effect just has to do with the extent of comfort involved in life, and the desire for society to become "perfect". In some senses morality itself could be said to be society's struggle to survive. What is good for society is deemed moral, those things that are non-destructive and perpetuate a reverence for life and a shedding of our animalistic tendencies. Whereas what's immoral is those actions that are bad for society, what is selfish, animalistic and inherently "Natural", what will make ME survive best? The line between morality, in some ways, lies between survival of society and survival of the individual, prosperity of society versus instinctual preservation and glorification of the self. "In some cases people might have been forced to go elsewhere to have abortions and that might have eased a few consciences, but it wouldn’t have done what the church wants to do—it wouldn’t have created a deep-seated respect for life. Abortions would have gone on, millions of them." That's a pretty beautiful statement. "Better than any law or rule or threat of punishment would be the moving strength of our own good example, demonstrating our lack of hypocrisy, proving the beauty and worth of our instruction." Everything before that statement was great, but I thought that summed it up pretty nicely. "We should understand that whether abortion is outlawed or not, our work has barely begun: the work of creating a society where the right to life doesn’t end at the moment of birth, where an infant isn’t helped into a world that doesn’t care if it’s fed properly, housed decently, educated adequately, where the blind or retarded child isn’t condemned to exist rather than empowered to live" "We come together in worship as companions, in the ancient sense of the word, those who break bread together, and who are obliged by the commitment we share to help one another, everywhere, in all we do and, in the process, to help the whole human family. We see our mission to be “the completion of the work of creation.”" Anyway sorry for the quotes i just enjoyed them alot. |
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| Jul 25th, 2006 02:33 PM | ||
| KevinTheOmnivore |
Not that I can recall. It's always an issue when Catholics run, just look at JFK. But what we saw with kerry was different. It was a deliberate effort by Republicans to push/guilt/whatever the American Catholic Church into condemning Kerry, all for political gains. I find that troubling. |
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| Jul 25th, 2006 02:30 PM | ||
| JMHX | I know there was some uproar with Kennedy, but is there any evidence that it ever reached the point of media circus that it did with Kerry in 2004? | |
| Jul 25th, 2006 02:17 PM | ||
| KevinTheOmnivore |
It always comes up for Democrats anyway. It gets really sticky for Catholic Democrats, and I think an unfortunate precedent was set in 2004 with Kerry. |
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| Jul 25th, 2006 02:16 PM | ||
| kahljorn |
Eh, no big deal thanks for the effort, JMHX. "Those links are really the first I ever heard of Kerry REALLY being excommunicated. I'll have to look into that, I think that would've made bigger news than just a Catholic paper and the dispatch. " I doubt he was actually ex-communicated, like I said this issue always comes up at election time and only at election time. I think it even happened with Gore and Clinton ;/ The story usually disipates not long after that. I remember hearing about it originally on fox news or something, though. |
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| Jul 25th, 2006 02:13 PM | ||
| kahljorn | doublepost | |
| Jul 25th, 2006 02:10 PM | ||
| JMHX |
Quote:
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| Jul 25th, 2006 01:53 PM | ||
| KevinTheOmnivore |
I like Cuomo, he's an intellectual who had a hard time figuring out how to be a politician. I actually just had to write a tediously long paper on one of his races, so bleh. Those links are really the first I ever heard of Kerry REALLY being excommunicated. I'll have to look into that, I think that would've made bigger news than just a Catholic paper and the dispatch. Those efforts were really unheard of, and from what I remember, they were pushed by GOP activists who weren't even Catholics. My Church back home was littere with anti-Kerry literature from Right-Wing Christian groups, it made me rather angry, since those folks generally have little time or use for the "Papists". |
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| Jul 25th, 2006 01:31 PM | ||
| kahljorn |
Well, I wasn't trying to overstate it, I was just trying to convey the expression of the story. I understand it's generally the media or maybe some opposing political party exploding the story more than anything, but still.. it seems like there's a story like this every election year. I don't know if this is a good source of information, but from catholic world news: http://www.cwnews.com/news/viewstory.cfm?recnum=32830 Washington dispatch? http://www.washingtondispatch.com/sp...es/000665.html It's obviously a religous slandering tactic ;/ I'm not really sure if the catholic church supports it, but that's the impression I got when I first heard about it. And you're right this is an interesting read, he's a smart fellow. Should I throw in some quotes? Or would that just be clutter? |
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| Jul 25th, 2006 01:16 PM | ||
| KevinTheOmnivore |
Quote:
Kicking out someone for being "pro-choice", while it has its political overtones, isn't political in the way he's referring to. The Catholic Church rarely let's candidates speak at masses. I've been one all of my life, and I've been in Churches all over the country, and I've never seen it. Other denominations are less strict about that. My friend from North Carolina is a Southern Baptist, and she heard Republican candidates all of the time. She was told to vote Republican by her minister. |
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| Jul 25th, 2006 01:06 PM | ||
| kahljorn |
yea at notre dam or something like that "I may use the prescribed processes of government—the legislative and executive and judicial processes—to convince my fellow citizens, Jews and Protestants and Buddhists and nonbelievers, that what I propose is as beneficial for them as I believe it is for me; that it is not just parochial or narrowly sectarian but fulfills a human desire for order, peace, justice, kindness, love, any of the values most of us agree are desirable even apart from their specific religious base or context." I love it when people talk about being human, i think people forget that all too often. |
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| Jul 25th, 2006 01:05 PM | ||
| KevinTheOmnivore |
http://www.americanrhetoric.com/spee...iousbelief.htm I think it's a collge commencement speech. |
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| Jul 25th, 2006 12:59 PM | ||
| kahljorn |
Yea, I guess he didn't do enough appealing to the common person or something ;/ Personally i was going to vote for nader because i knew it wouldn't really matter in california, but once i saw him in the debates i actually wanted to vote for him. In my opinion we need someone in office who thinks their opinion and personal ideas don't really matter, what matters is "Reality". is it the one where he was invited by some church guy to give a speech, possibly someone from notre dam or something? lol that's the one I was reading :O :O I like how in this article it says the catholic church is going to try to stay out of elections and politics for the greater good or whatever, yet every election year there's a story about how such-and-such person is unchristianly and the catholic church is going to throw them out because of their political views(usually revolving around a pro-choice stance) |
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| Jul 25th, 2006 12:54 PM | ||
| KevinTheOmnivore |
The '84 speech was hot, but no , idon't think it's that one. GEEZ, I GUESS I'LL FIND THE LINK TO THE SPEECH I BROUGHT UP, OMG I think you make a good point, overall, regarding kerry's performance. We tend to talk about him like he was Wendell Wilkie, which just isn't the case. He did quite well in the debates, and btw, it was a damn close election. A few thousand votes change in Ohio and we have a different president. The guy got more popular votes that pretty much every other Dem. in the 20th Century other than FDR. I think the problem is that Kerry didn't make you want to vote for him. People did, but it was more of an Anybody But Bush sort of thing. EDIT: http://www.americanrhetoric.com/spee...iousbelief.htm |
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| Jul 25th, 2006 12:44 PM | ||
| kahljorn |
I thought it was impressive, personally, there was also alot of other stuff he said that I thought was fairly admirable as well. He kicked ass in the debates, I still don't understand how he lost. I remember a few points thinking, "Fuck bush is getting his ass handed to him, kerry just won the election!", but then you have to think how many people in america actually watch debates and understand what's going on? I picture people staring dead-faced at the screen until they hear something about religion and then screaming and holloring. Was it the speech he gave at the 1984 democratic convention? |
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| Jul 25th, 2006 12:28 PM | ||
| KevinTheOmnivore |
Quote:
Kerry wanted to have it both ways far too often, and it made him hard to get behind. |
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| Jul 25th, 2006 11:16 AM | ||
| kahljorn |
WHAT A MENTAL TORNADO FOLKS ITS OUT OF CONTROL OMG WHATS IT GONNA DO NEXT LOOK OMG IT SAID THE WORD BULLSHIT THATS FUCKING INSANE I DONT KNOW WHAT THIS MENTAL TORNADO WILL DO NEXT IVE NEVER SEEN ANYTHING LIKE IT ITS ABSOLUTELY AMAZING WHATS THIS IT CALLED SOMEONE BALLLESS MY GOD IN ALL MY WORK AS A TORNADO CHASER IN THAT MOVIE I WAS IN THAT SUCKED REALLY BAD IVE NEVER SEEN A TORNADO CALL PEOPLE BALLESS ABSOLUTELY AMAZING FOLKS AND NOW ITS MAKING VAGINAL JOKES AND IMPLYING PEOPLE ARE VAGINAS, OH WHAT A HUMOROUS SITE THAT WOULD BE! I'm reading the john kerry stuff, so far it seems pretty boring, but i really wasn't expecting anything exciting.. So far I agree with alot of what he's saying, especially further education reform through technology. Really I just want an improved education system, though. Isn't it one of the forefronts of socratic philosophy that the youth should be educated as excessively as possible, and wasn't it that philosophy that invented/caused the greek philosophical era? And yes i remember you talking about the topic of how america needs to be smarter to get better jobs and usher in a greater economy. Alright do you have anything else that's not about "e-commerce"? This guy seems to fucking love the stuff, I bet he just wants faster access to porn. I'm reading the terrorism one now. Finished the terrorism one, none of it's really anything new to me but I guess the fact it was written a few years ago is pretty good. The acknowledgement of the necessity of a so-called culture war to eliminate the perpetuation and production of terrorists, by means of preemptive developmental psychology, is good. Education is a pretty powerful tool, children are very receptive, especially when it's targetted at your "enemies'. Talking about the need to fight 'terrorist forces' in a different manner is great, you'd think the history of america would've taught that lesson though with our "Minute men". Thanks for the link and I HOPE PREECHR ENJOYED MY INSANELY BATTY INTERPRETATION and just so you know what I liked about kerry in the debates was when he said stuff like, "MY RELIGION SAYS THIS STUFF IS BAD, BUT I DONT CARE BECAUSE MY RELIGION AND OPINION HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH CRIPPLED ATHEISTS WHO COULD BE SAVED BY STEM CELL RESEARCH" two of those articles are nearly identical. |
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| Jul 25th, 2006 10:18 AM | ||
| Preechr |
Quote:
Tell me what you think about those links JMHX provided. I'm sure I'll be fascinated by your impressions of old John Kerry vs. new John Kerry. |
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| Jul 25th, 2006 08:38 AM | ||
| KevinTheOmnivore |
Don't listen to him, guys! I didn't realize how great this thread had become. EDIT: Go DLC! |
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| Jul 25th, 2006 06:45 AM | ||
| JMHX |
Okay, that's enough guys, let's keep it with the topic. No need for the back-and-forths. Here are a few writings of his I have saved. http://www.ppionline.org/ndol/ndol_c...contentid=2731 http://www.ppionline.org/ndol/ndol_c...=106&subid=122 http://www.ppionline.org/ndol/ndol_c...0&subid=900055 http://www.ppionline.org/ndol/ndol_c...=106&subid=122 http://www.ppionline.org/ndol/ndol_c...=106&subid=122 |
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| Jul 25th, 2006 01:08 AM | ||
| kahljorn |
I like how you can waste time throwing bullshit insults but you can't paraphrase something. It's not like I expect more from you or anything, you're the guy who pussies out of every argument and debate on this board. You have no balls, and even less intelligence. You really want to talk about talking out of your ass? You're infamous. The fact that you used the word "pouty" makes it pretty obvious that you were trying to act like I was a child, on top of that the format of what you said was obviously in baby talk. Also calling me gay is pretty lame, and also talking about little girls having sex with hairy men is pretty gross, you disgusting pedophile. Do you get your rocks off talking in baby talk about children having sex with hairy men? |
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| Jul 24th, 2006 10:44 PM | ||
| Preechr |
You called me a girl, and I insinuated that you preferred your tops to be bears, but then I gave you advice on how to be more attractive to your type of gay man. I just don't see how that's the same thing. |
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| Jul 24th, 2006 09:39 PM | ||
| kahljorn | I just called you a little girl, at least have some style(one that's not mine, preferably) when you insult me. | |
| Jul 24th, 2006 09:37 PM | ||
| Preechr | Don't be bitter. You get all pouty when you get bitter, and the big, hairy boys you like don't like pouty bottoms. | |
| Jul 24th, 2006 09:20 PM | ||
| kahljorn | Whatever you little girl. | |
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