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Topic Review (Newest First)
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| May 9th, 2007 07:26 PM | ||
| Courage the Cowardly Dog |
LOL, who knew the french knew how to party. But they do the same thing during soccor riots. They need flame retardent cars. So a pro-american conservative won in France? wow.... I didn't see that coming. Do the french have a middle part of the country where people vote conservative and aren't as out there as the louder people? |
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| May 7th, 2007 05:40 PM | ||
| KevinTheOmnivore | The fires add to the romantic ambiance. | |
| May 7th, 2007 04:48 PM | ||
| ItalianStereotype |
regarding election night: "Police reported that 270 people were taken in for questioning and that 367 parked vehicles had been torched. On a typical night in France, about 100 cars are burned." Oh, really? |
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| May 6th, 2007 04:08 PM | ||
| KevinTheOmnivore | Sarkozy wins, with an overall turnout unseen since Mitterand was elected in 1981. | |
| May 5th, 2007 12:37 PM | ||
| Miss Modular |
Well, I'm reading an article in the paper about the election right now. They have a sidebar with the platforms of both candidates. What's amazing is that both candidates have distinctive platforms. I think both candidates have interesting platforms and both have policies I'd agree with. But I can see why Kevin and Jeff (theapportioner for those who don't know) support Sarkozy. Sarkozy seems to have some geunine interest in establishing France as an important part of the world's stage--something France hasn't been in decades (As Jon Stewart told Bill O'Reilly, France is to the world what Marcie is to the Peanuts Gang). For me, it's a draw. Sarkozy will win, though. |
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| May 5th, 2007 12:23 PM | ||
| KevinTheOmnivore |
Quote:
This is what democracy looks like! |
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| May 5th, 2007 11:48 AM | ||
| KevinTheOmnivore |
Seth, I love you. Was it alphabet soup who once said drop "the mensa schtick"? I think your higher mind understood what I was asking, so good. Quote:
And derrida gives his stamp of approval to riots, so everything seems to be normal. Have a great weekend! |
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| May 5th, 2007 09:01 AM | ||
| derrida | Considering there is ample-enough support(http://www.libertysecurity.org/article1240.html) for the contention that Sarkozy's abandonment of Mitterand-era police tactics in favor of SWAT style raids on petty thieves and drug dealers complete with quotas on arrests and interrogations contributed to the riots in 2005, I don't think the statement is egregious. | |
| May 5th, 2007 02:33 AM | ||
| Sethomas | Well, no. Grammatically they're both subjunctive, but on poses a viable option whereas the other is abstract projection. Are they similar in that they're cheap moves that play on fear? To some degree, but Europeans look for any excuse to riot. It's not a far-fetched statement at all, whereas it's pretty obvious Al Qaeda would vote Bush in 04 to easier demonize the West. | |
| May 4th, 2007 10:18 PM | ||
| KevinTheOmnivore |
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070504/...election_dc_22 So Royal is flat out saying there will be riots if people vote for Sarkozy. Isn't that just like saying Al Qaeda would vote for John Kerry? |
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| Apr 24th, 2007 03:25 PM | ||
| Sethomas |
I think a good Western European politics thread would be nice once in a while. The central issues I see are where to go from here with social democracy, and what is to be thought and done about the incredible influx of North Africans. I had a friend who was the son of wealthy Russian expatriates to France, and he was very frustrated that there was so little difference in quality of living between his doctor parents and the average worker. I've talked to a lot of people happy with socialism, but his perspective was unique in that he was so rich. I read a very good article once talking about how to improve socialism without making it less social, and I really agreed with its premise that communal self-reliance is the best goal. That is, keep the market heavily socialized, but move toward gradually smaller and smaller markets so that the same alienation Marx warned to be inevitable of any post-IR market doesn't happen. While Fox news will label European parties "conservative" and "liberal", in my experience these labels have no relevance except where one applies them to how big a dick a party is to immigrants. So, I really don't know which party would be better to really make socialism as ideal as possible, but I suspect it'd probably be Les Verts. Except on the southern coast where most municipal signs were bilingual Spanish/Arabic, I saw not nearly as much African culture in Spain as I did in France. While heavily social, the New Spain seems to be pretty conservative, but this is probably related to it having only recently awaken from the Franco nightmare. On European immigration, though, I really have no idea how I feel. Obviously most North Africans in Europe move for a reason, and I don't harbor bad feelings for them as if they were trying to destroy European heritage. But that being said, I doubt most Europeans understand the true level that this is taking place. I lived a short while in a major French city, and when it came to daily transactions I spent the mast majority of my money on immigrant-run/oriented businesses. This wasn't even intentional, it just happened that they were the most accommodating to a poor foreign student (not to mention their take on French was much easier to understand). Even though Fallaci, a horrible dead bitch, strongly lied about the statistics it is still overwhelming how much of France isn't French. I'm not worried about this from a cultural Darwinism point of view, but I can definitely see how the economics behind it could be rather bleak. Many Americans assume it's the same story as Mexicans in the United States, but in my experience North Africans in France have had very little relative trouble with social mobility. (Speaking of which, I read an article that may have been posted here about how the American ideal of social mobility is less a reality here than the rest of the industrialized world.) It's not about how to screw the immigrants, it's about how to make life as best as possible for all people in Western Europe. I suspect that there is something special about France that makes it desirable for North Africans, and my guess is its lenient laws. (Yes, many if not most North Africans already speak French, but I doubt this is very strong of a factor.) Germany has enormous immigrant populations, but it's my understanding that they're still subject to extremely difficult hurdles to obtain representation. I remember my German professor saying that German citizenship laws were flagrantly racist when were reading a book dealing with Balkan refugees back in 2003, although a German friend of mine insists that this has changed. Die Toten Hosen have more than one song about German anti-foreign policies and attitudes. I think it's true that whether one wants to embrace or scourge the immigrants, the worst thing to be done is to ignore them. The principle reason is that the more the situation allows them to sponge of the social resources of France, the more cheated the working Frenchman feels regardless of how true it is. If people have nothing in a sane tone to read about millions of North Africans living in Europe, they're going to read La Forza della Ragione then vote Le Pen instead. |
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| Apr 24th, 2007 01:05 PM | ||
| theapportioner | You just know people in the banlieues are just itching to riot if Sarko wins. | |
| Apr 24th, 2007 12:48 PM | ||
| theapportioner | She's still hot. | |
| Apr 23rd, 2007 05:09 PM | ||
| Sethomas |
I bet Royal was totally hot fifteen years ago. I really don't know what's best for France, as long as Le Pen isn't involved. |
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| Apr 23rd, 2007 04:58 PM | ||
| KevinTheOmnivore |
I would agree. I think we need to take a look at context, and think about what a so-called French Conservative would lok like here in America. I think appealing to the frustrated Le Pen crowd was probably better than allowing Le Pen himself to flourish in the election, which would've once again embarrassed the "progressive" nation of France. |
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| Apr 23rd, 2007 03:55 PM | ||
| theapportioner |
Kevin, who do you favor? There's a lot I don't like about Sarkozy, but I also have my doubts about Royal's fitness for office. The former's pandering to Le Pen's followers really turned me off, but I suspect Sarkozy isn't so far to the right as he appears. I'd probably support Sarkozy. |
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| Apr 23rd, 2007 03:46 PM | ||
| Miss Modular |
I've been meaning to pick up this week's The Economist. 
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| Apr 23rd, 2007 01:01 PM | ||
| KevinTheOmnivore |
French Presidential Election Anybody paying attention to the French presidential race? The way it's being built up has it as one of these "cross road" elections between The Left and the Right. The first round of voting (with an 85% turnout!) is over, and you have free market conservative Nicolas Sarkozy vs. Socialist candidate Segolene Royal. Both would be monumental for France, IMO. They are both in their 50's, and sort of represent a "new wave". Sarkozy would be a radical shift for France, since he supports deregulation and warmer relations with America. Royal would be the first woman elected president of France, and would probably signal a similar sea change as the one in Spain following the Madrid bombings. Look for even less international cooperation if the latter occurs. Anybody else really digging this?
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