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| Jun 13th, 2003 11:22 AM | |||
| GAsux |
Yeah.... You people crack me up. Yeah right now thousands of troops are coming back from the ME and they aren't telling their families how much they missed them or talking about how happy they are to be out that god forsaken place. No instead they are sitting around bars all across America comparing "kill" totals and having cock fights to prove who is the mightiest. You know how those arrogant, uneducated, racist military types are. They LIVE for killing. They masturbate to that shit. |
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| Jun 13th, 2003 10:15 AM | |||
| FS |
Unless you're a liberalist bedwetting scumbag, you would have supported the troops 100%. And if you supported the troops, you're kinda responsible for the killing, too. I mean, why do the troops deserve to get all the credit, huh? All the snarling and chest-beating you've done at home earns you the claim to at least a few dirty towelhead kills. In fact, it makes you a HERO. |
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| Jun 13th, 2003 09:25 AM | |||
| mburbank | Al Quaeda=Terrorists=Muslims=Iraquis=Arabs=anyone standing within 50 feet of an Arabs getting killed=anyone who says different. | ||
| Jun 13th, 2003 09:18 AM | |||
| Zhukov |
You have muddled up your terrorists/extreemists with your Iraq/Sadaam. Please sort yourself out. PRONTO. |
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| Jun 13th, 2003 08:58 AM | |||
| VinceZeb |
Woah. Wait one damn minute here. Are you that blind? If the terrorists had their way, they would kill us ALL. They don't care about your politics. They don't care who you voted for. THEY CARE ABOUT YOU BEING MUSLIM OR DEAD. You want to know why liberals are thought to be moronic and out of touch? Look at your former statements. |
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| Jun 13th, 2003 08:40 AM | |||
| Zhukov |
I beg your pardon? I am pretty sure of myself when I think that Sethomas and co. have not killed any Iraqi civillians. Responsibility should not fall on everyone in the US. |
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| Jun 13th, 2003 08:33 AM | |||
| VinceZeb |
Quote:
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| Jun 13th, 2003 02:05 AM | |||
| El Blanco |
First, Iraqi Body Count's Math is off. They don't take proper physics into account. Second, ranx, didn't I already explain DU to you? Did ou find any evidence to support your side, or just more baseless accusations? Quote:
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| Jun 12th, 2003 10:13 PM | |||
| Isaac | now cyour argument from a different forum confuses me... | ||
| Jun 12th, 2003 10:05 PM | |||
| GAsux |
Really? How much is 10,000 then? |
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| Jun 12th, 2003 09:05 PM | |||
| Zhukov |
Quote:
 Quote:
There didn't have to be any civillian deaths. You may think it is unavoidable, but when it takes an effort to kill people, it takes no effort to not kill people. And 3000-ish is a whole heap of deaths! 
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| Jun 12th, 2003 07:53 PM | |||
| AChimp |
Quote:
:army |
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| Jun 12th, 2003 07:40 PM | |||
| GAsux |
... Quote:
P.S. I am starting to think the DU argument is part of Ranxers sig because it seems to show up in every post. |
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| Jun 12th, 2003 06:59 PM | |||
| Sethomas | I understand where you're coming from and you have a point, but the fact remains that we instigated this war. It's not like Saddam commanded a Scorched Earth policy in which Iraqis deliberately killed Iraqis, so for the most part the blame for any civilian death should be pointed at us. | ||
| Jun 12th, 2003 06:51 PM | |||
| GAsux |
What.... Is there ANY valid circumstances under which you could justify killing ANY civilians during a conflict? Probably very very few. As I clearly stated, I'm not saying it's not a shame. However, once again, considering the nature of the battle that was fought, and the environment it was fought in, 3,000-ish is in all reality a pretty remarkable number. I undertand the desire to add emotion to the argument, but I'm saying from a strictly statistical standpoint, that's actually relattively unprecedented. So far no one has made any sort of argument against the possibilty of any civilian deaths being caused by the Iraqis themselves. As if didn't happen. As if Iraqi militia didn't at any point intentionally or unintentionally kill Iraqi civilians. The United States has a tremmendous amount of technology and STILL ended up with "friendly fire" deaths. Do you suppose that Iraqi RPGS and mortars have "American only" rounds? And do you suppose that Dr.s who treated or saw civilian casualties were able to distinguish which injuries were caused by who? |
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| Jun 12th, 2003 06:29 PM | |||
| Sethomas |
Dear Ranxer: On behalf of the "left of center" community and proponents of the English language, I would like to say "no thank you." We feel we will get along just fine without your hyperbolic dissertations. Perhaps we will miss your mastery of the "stream of consciousness" style, but I would hate to exhaust you any further. -Seth Thomas Pace ___________________________________ GA, remember "Shock and Awe"? We were crying that there would be a horrendous number of casualties for very good reason. I wasn't posting at the time, but as suspense was building I was appalled by the media's failure (as far as I witnessed) to explain why such a strategy would be particularly deadly. In a regular spaced-out strafing of a city, a bomb takes out a building and the laws of physics cause oxygen to rush in from all sides via displacement. In a raid such as that proposed by Shock and Awe, all the air is depleted of oxygen simultaneously and thus displacement has to come from higher in the atmosphere, which can take several hours. In that period of time, people in hundreds of city blocks that may have not even been bombed would asphyxiate. Perhaps not everyone, but the elderly, young, and obese would be at particular risk. If that sounds far-fetched, oxygen depletion is what caused such a high civilian casualty rate in Dresden. Due to the gravity of the atomic bomb droppings at the end of the war, most people completely overlook that there were months of fire bombing campaigns over Tokyo. Some historians have argued that as many as a million civilians died by asphyxiation in those raids. I will be the first to say that it's an absolute blessing that Shock and Awe never happened. But that doesn't come to any real consolation for the fact that over 3,000 people were killed utterly without purpose. |
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| Jun 12th, 2003 05:54 PM | |||
| GAsux |
Yeah You're right Ranxer, the rest of my post was just utter bullshit. I'm glad you were able to weed out the truth from my nonsense. Good on ya. |
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| Jun 12th, 2003 02:50 PM | |||
| ranxer |
Ga i agree with you on one point "the war was fought in vain" oops, its worse than that.. 9 times out of 10 a civilian death in iraq created a new terrorist, we will be paying for this war for oil for a long time.. and not just by trying to prove to the rest of the world that we're not ALL fascists but in loss of our freedoms here in the usa. and don't forget that there are NEW civilian deaths every day because of our fascist regimes military 'solutions' PLUS(!) depleted uranium from gulf war I is STILL killing folks over there via cancers! omg, and we're still blocking food and medical supplies despite the fact that we support dropping the sanctions! |
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| Jun 12th, 2003 02:37 PM | |||
| Zosimus |
If you are interested in the Iraq body counts, I think that you might find the below link very interesting ( i believe that I may have posted it before). The site claims that there are MANY more bodies than the numbers stated in the starting tread. And the site has gathered information from medias all around the world, not just from a few "independant sources" in the US. It seriously worth checking out! http://iraqbodycount.com/forum/ |
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| Jun 12th, 2003 11:34 AM | |||
| GAsux |
Yeah I bet I could write half the responses I will get from this but I'm going to say it anyway. Being the Lee Greenwood loving right wing fanatic that I am, I think there are a few things to point out here that hold some merit. I'm not trying to demean any amount of civilian casualties, etc., etc. I understand the "one is too many" argument and all that good stuff so don't bother insulting my intelligence with it. Regardless, I think it should at least be noted that the "tens of thousands" of civilian casualties arguments used before the war were overdramatized. Let's be honest, even here there was a lot of discussion of the overwhelming numbers of civilian deaths many were certain would result from the war. Second, in perspective, quite frankly given the nature of the conflict and where it was being fought, that is an amazingly low number. Tragic no matter how you look at it, but nevertheless amazing. Under different circumstances, how many other nations would have engaged in such a war with so much conscious effort to minimize such deaths? Third, this whole "counting bodies" thing is a sham. It could have been 10,000, it might have been 500. There is no way any accurate figures can be done. Just as the article states the number could be lowballed as a result of many deaths not even reported, the number could also be swelled from inaccurate reporting. Iraqi shrapnel happens to look just like U.S. shrapnel. Do you suppose every Iraqi artillery/mortar/grenade round struck Americans? How many of those injuries were caused by Iraqi army/militia? Again I'm not trying to say that there weren't a significant number of civilian casualties. And I'm not trying to marginalize death. The fact that were so many civilian casualties is worsened by the fact that so far there is still a substantial sense that the war was fought in vain in the first place. But regardless, it's only fair to keep a little perspective on things. It's a bit of a fraud to insist that war in Iraq would no doubt cause tens of thousands of civilian casualties, then disregard it only to pretend that some 3,000 is just as bad. |
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| Jun 11th, 2003 09:16 PM | |||
| Sethomas | I was thinking the same thing, Mr. Satan. | ||
| Jun 11th, 2003 09:02 AM | |||
| mburbank | I think one needs to add to that count all the Iraqui soldiers who were conscripted and no choice but to be where they were. | ||
| Jun 11th, 2003 07:16 AM | |||
| FS | Isn't that almost exactly the death count of the WTC attack? | ||
| Jun 11th, 2003 03:05 AM | |||
| The_voice_of_reason |
Hey they started it, with their aid to Al queda (Holy shit they have me brainwashed) |
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| Jun 10th, 2003 11:28 PM | |||
| ranxer |
holy F#$&(ing cow! and this is being reported as an early conservative estimate .. unfreaking real.. i mean i thought it would be 3k plus fer sure but i didnt really think we'd hear those numbers in the main stream press. impeach the bastard already..
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