I-Mockery Forum - Reply to Topic

Additional Options
Miscellaneous Options Automatically parse links in text

Aug 2nd, 2003 12:09 AM

ranxer

Quote:

Solar power is crap

for all those who state some such or agree.. gee..yer right cause we're just, um, not positive.. um. .that.... the sun will rise tomorrow.. maybe investment in such an unreliable source of energy is a mistake

i'd like to attempt to explain hydrogen generation for those who don't understand.. (not pointing at anyone)

hydrogen is readily available from water because... water is H2O, to separate the hydrogen from water you need Energy.. one way is using the energy in gasoline.. or any other combustable to get the H2O separated.. gas or other combustables are used in a generator to produce a current that is used same as solar panels.. solar is great, wind, hydro any source.. solar panels have a positive and negative lead coming from them..separate the two wires by a couple milimeters and insert into water.. presto when the sun shines little bubbles come off the leads ..the bubbles are ..! hydrogen.. put the leads in an oxy tank or other presserizable container and Viola! you have a tank of hydrogen after a little while

that simple.. people have been doing it for many years in backyards for their hydrogen cars.. currently the record for converting a car(truck in this case) is the American Hydrogen Association.. (AHA) twas about 40 minutes and ready to run on a tank of homegrown hydro

its really not that complex untill you get into liquid hydrogen.

and for those of you that think solar panels go bad from UV rays.. i've seen panels shot by shotgun blasts still putting out solid wattage.. typically a panel lasts 20 to 40 years at useable wattage(with a little windex and wiping).. can you say that for a windmill or gas generator?.. of course wind is pretty darn reliable too.

Aug 1st, 2003 01:45 PM

The One and Only...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zero Signal

SEND THE NUCLEAR WASTE INTO THE SUN.

That might work if it weren't for the fact that you have to PAY FOR THE SHUTTLES!!!

Aug 1st, 2003 03:59 AM

As long as these giant tomatoes don't eat the Third World instead.

Jul 31st, 2003 11:40 PM

AChimp

Yeah. Or they could use it to make giant tomatoes and crops to feed the Third World.

Jul 31st, 2003 11:38 PM

Zero Signal

SEND THE NUCLEAR WASTE INTO THE SUN.

Jul 31st, 2003 11:35 PM

AChimp

And a good thing, too, since this one's almost over.

Quote:

its just that we don't USE them enough, because they are often unreliable (Solar/Wind), expensive and environmentally un-good (Hydro/Nuclear) or just too difficult to set up in most areas (Tidal/Geothermal).

Solar power is crap, agreed. You can either build the solar panels with a lot of shielding so they last a long time at the expense of efficiency, or you can do the reverse at the expense of having to put up a new panel every year because of decay caused by UV.

Wind, though, is fairly promising, albeit in a few locations. Why not put the big hydrogen plants there and then ship it all around? Hydrogen would be the perfect commodity to ship using pipelines, I think.

And, nuclear plants and hydro dams already exist, so the damage has been done.

Tidal and geothermal options, again, can be used where appropriate for large hydrogen extraction facilities.

There isn't any need to resort to fossil fuels, except the "need" to line the oil industry's pockets.

Jul 31st, 2003 11:26 PM

The_Rorschach

You made my day happy Chimp

Jul 31st, 2003 11:24 PM

Big Papa Goat

No need to get mad my good chimp. I think I may have communicated poorly, but what I was basically getting at is not that we don't HAVE renewable electric energy sources, its just that we don't USE them enough, because they are often unreliable (Solar/Wind), expensive and environmentally un-good (Hydro/Nuclear) or just too difficult to set up in most areas (Tidal/Geothermal). Maybe I'm wrong about some of this, but I'm pretty sure I'm right about the fact that most electricity is generated by fossil fuels, and therefore, most hydrogen would be seperated from water using energy from polluting fossil fuels. I apologize for anyone I may have upset with my n00bishness and general ignorance.

Jul 31st, 2003 10:22 PM

AChimp

HELLO NEWBIE.

SINCE YOU ARE BLIND, I WILL RE-POST MY OWN RESPONSE TO THAT POINT THAT I MADE ONE LINE DOWN FROM THAT SENTENCE.

Quote:

Admittedly, there are some efficiency issues regarding getting the hydrogen, but I have read of several developments in hydrogen fuel cells that recycle the water exhaust that is produced by using some of its own power. Other proposals suggest using solar or wind power to set up big hydrogen extraction facilities.

Hell, they could even use the hydroelectric power that's all over Canada's north.

Jul 31st, 2003 10:04 PM

Big Papa Goat

Quote:

all you need to do to get it is zap it with electricity

And where does this electricity come from? hmm?
I agree with the principle of hydrogen fuel cells in that it is a clean, renewable energy source for transportation, but until we start using clean, renewable energy sources for electricity, a hydrogen economy is still a long way away. There are also many other issues to contend with, such as an efficient process to electrolyze water, safe and efficient hydrogen batteries, etc, etc.[/quote]

Jul 30th, 2003 04:47 PM

Zebra 3

Quote:

(article) They said better fuel efficiency, improvements to car technology and stricter environmental rules could reduce air pollution at less than 100th the cost of hydrogen cars and would be more effective for several decades.

- This smells like good ol' fashioned bulshit...

Jul 30th, 2003 04:32 PM

Bennett

Whenever I see one of those ASIMO guys, I have the biggest childish urge to destroy it and just go terminator 2 on its robit ass.

Jul 30th, 2003 04:29 PM

mburbank

We just had Honda's ASIMO robot at my Museum. These Hondo folks mean to be THE forward thinking high tech mass production people.

Hope their 'accounting' has been 'regular'.

Cause I kinda like them.

Jul 30th, 2003 02:42 PM

Mike

http://www.hondanews.com/Forms/envir...s(r)_text.html

Honda's Zero Emission Car. Apparently it's much more expensive than conventionally powered vehicles, but that will probably change when the process of producing the hydrogen fuel is optimized and worked into the economy.

Jul 30th, 2003 02:41 PM

The One and Only...

I see. I suppose crappy is subjective, though. It's all relative to what you want in an automobile.

Jul 30th, 2003 02:26 PM

mburbank

You miss my point entirely.

I was quoting you about people not buying crappy cars. People are sheep. The quality of a product or the logic of it's design have little or nothing to do with wether people will buy it. The SUV is the modern version of Tulip Bulb hysteria.

Jul 30th, 2003 02:12 PM

The One and Only...

Quote:

Originally Posted by mburbank

Give us crappy cars and we won't buy them!

I agree here.

Quote:

BUT... give us really expensive, efficient, gas guzzling muscle bound hulks designed for tasks they are virtually never used for ,craft an add campaign that appeals to our basic selfishness and give botaloads of money to politicians so they'll never vote for fuel efficiency standards and hey presto, Republic of Cretins that we are we EAT 'EM UP!

Okay, first of all... how are gas cars more expensive than hydrogen cars? I'm not counting the price of gas right here.

You are right that cars are rediculous in their design, but that's the free market. I don't understand why people want them. But hey, if that's what they want, that's what they buy.

Add campaign? A hydrogen car could be advertised just as easily as a gas one, just in a different direction.

All this aside, I think company's should be allowed to make cars that the people want to buy. It sounds like if you had your way, this would often not be the case. No one ever said capatalism had it's drawbacks.

That said, I'm all for hydrogen cars. I do believe people would buy them.

Jul 30th, 2003 09:35 AM

mburbank

"They give us crappy cars, we don't."
-One-and-only-guy-like-the-next-guy

Thank God for that great equalizer, the free market!

Give us crappy cars and we won't buy them! BUT... give us really expensive, efficient, gas guzzling muscle bound hulks designed for tasks they are virtually never used for ,craft an add campaign that appeals to our basic selfishness and give botaloads of money to politicians so they'll never vote for fuel efficiency standards and hey presto, Republic of Cretins that we are we EAT 'EM UP!

And before any idiot wastes jaw muscle on the old "I have a right to own an SUV!" saw, yes, you do. You also have a right to go shirtless and painted at a winter football ,hump veal, or develop a status recognition system with your peers based on how much paper money you can actually shove up you ass, but it doesn't mean it's a good idea.

Jul 30th, 2003 08:40 AM

Spectre X

I think major Hydrogen extraction facilities from water would eb a good thing, because one of the by-products is oxygen

Jul 30th, 2003 08:14 AM

Blackjack

Ahh, I love the old alternative fuel debates.

Did you know the Germans managed to synthesise artificial diesal and gasoline during WW2 using bacteria?

The problem is it is very expensive to produce gasoline this way, whereas just pumping and refining it is much cheaper. Oil will run out one day though, so we need to push for alternatives to pumping it. Ultimately, gasoline is a very lightweight fuel for all the energy it contains so I still belive it is the future.

Better aerodynamics, engine design, cleaner gasoline and planned roads and cities is where we really should be looking

Jul 30th, 2003 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike

Quote:

Originally Posted by FS

I believe that current developers of hydrogen engines still intend to burn fossil fuels to obtain the needed hydrogen.

There are already plans to develop small machines that people will be able to run at home to provide the needed hydrogen. As Chimp says, it can be derived from water.

Yeah, but I expect companies that provide fossil fuels won't be swept aside so easily - especially in the US, where they're buddy-buddy with the president.

Jul 29th, 2003 09:34 PM

The One and Only...

Who cares what the experts say? It's all about what the car manufacturers give us. They give us efficient hydrogen cars, we buy them. They give us crappy cars, we don't.

Jul 29th, 2003 05:10 PM

Jeanette X

Quote:

Originally Posted by ItalianStereotype

do you care about anything BUT the environment?

Look at the other threads I started for the answer to your question.

Jul 29th, 2003 05:06 PM

Mike

Quote:

Originally Posted by FS

I believe that current developers of hydrogen engines still intend to burn fossil fuels to obtain the needed hydrogen.

There are already plans to develop small machines that people will be able to run at home to provide the needed hydrogen. As Chimp says, it can be derived from water.

Jul 29th, 2003 04:24 PM

AChimp

Quote:

Farrell and Keith, associate professor of engineering and public policy at Carnegie Mellon University in Pittsburgh, noted that hydrogen is derived mostly from oil and coal, which produce substantial carbon dioxide.

That is a huge pile of shit. The single largest source of hydrogen on Earth is water, and all you need to do to get it is zap it with electricity.

Admittedly, there are some efficiency issues regarding getting the hydrogen, but I have read of several developments in hydrogen fuel cells that recycle the water exhaust that is produced by using some of its own power. Other proposals suggest using solar or wind power to set up big hydrogen extraction facilities.

Hell, they could even use the hydroelectric power that's all over Canada's north.

The only thing that's at risk by switching to hydrogen is the oil companies.

This thread has more than 25 replies. Click here to review the whole thread.

About Us |

Store |

Advertising |

Contact

Features

Shorts

Editorials

Games

Comics

Blogs

Forum

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads You may post replies You may not post attachments You may not edit your posts vB code is On Smilies are On [IMG] code is On HTML code is Off