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Topic Review (Newest First)
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| Aug 28th, 2003 03:25 PM | ||
| Phil the anorak |
Bit of a snoopers charter eh with aspects of the UK antiterrorism act thrown in for good measure. A big terrorism act is always a good cover to bring in powers to keep a closer watch on what ones citizens get up to when not in church or whatever. Our anti-terrorism act was brought in after a terrorist outrage in the early 70's. |
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| Aug 28th, 2003 03:14 PM | ||
| sspadowsky |
http://www.aclu.org/SafeandFree/Safe...ID=12126&c=207 Lost of resources right there, including the text of the Act itself. It's a mind-numbingly boring read on the surface, but once you realize the implications of it, it's scary. |
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| Aug 28th, 2003 03:10 PM | ||
| Phil the anorak | Could someone tell me about this Patriot act please | |
| Aug 28th, 2003 03:02 PM | ||
| sspadowsky |
This is the creepy fucker in charge of all this nonsense.
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| Aug 27th, 2003 04:25 PM | ||
| mburbank |
Oh, Sspad, to return to an earlier query, if one monitors Vinth's activity the way I do (It's a public service, like monitoring volcanoes or managing a group home) you'll see that his activity on his own website tracks pretty evenly with his activity here. For a while all he was posting were paragraphs about how tired he was and how he had nothing to say (like that ever stopped him). I theorize our lil Vinth suffers from bi-polar disorder. He started to climb out last week, but he's in it again. All he posted on his site today was that he ws really psyched for football season. Sad. I speculate he'll return with the school year, but start out as a pale imitation of himslef, not really rising to full throttle until early October, peaking by the end of the month and then starting to spiral down through the holidays reaaching bottom between X-mas and New Years. |
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| Aug 27th, 2003 04:12 PM | ||
| sspadowsky | We're talking about the PATRIOT Act here, skeezix. You wanna bitch about other things, start your own thread. | |
| Aug 27th, 2003 04:03 PM | ||
| The One and Only... | I think we can all agree that both the Patriot Act and Affirmative Action are garbage. | |
| Aug 27th, 2003 03:07 PM | ||
| CaptainBubba |
This is seriously the first good piece of news I've heard in years.  Not that its really news, but the article's tone and suggestion makes me happy anyway. Quote:
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| Aug 27th, 2003 02:53 PM | ||
| ranxer |
sneak and peek? its unreal that they want to enable police to search our homes without a warrant if nobody answers the door! "gee he's not home so we can take a look around" without a warrant? hmm, somebody tell me again how this doesnt infringe on privacy rights! and roving wiretaps.. if they get a warrant to listen in on someones calls this means they can bug any phone that the suspect "might" use. at the very least this is a lot of money we will be wasting in the name of security when the problems of security could be solved elsewhere. seems to me that the administration wants to keep everyone preoccupied with attacks on thier freedoms rather than allow any attention on the reasons for the terrorist attacks.. our foriegn policy is our single largest threat to Americans security. as i heard at http://pittsburgh.indymedia.org/news/2003/08/7922.php quicktime vid "Don't be a Rogue Superpower" the bush administration has enabled the largest fundamentalist takeover of government in Pakistans history. As we anger more and more middle easterners we are enabling more and more fanatics to gain support.. Bombs on anyside will lead to more terror.. period.. um, till there's no life left then there will be peace
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| Aug 27th, 2003 02:20 PM | ||
| sspadowsky | I keep reading articles that refer to Ashcroft quoting Winston Chruchill and Abraham Lincoln. I wonder if the Lincoln quote was the one about fooling some of the people some of the time. | |
| Aug 27th, 2003 02:01 PM | ||
| mburbank |
Yeah, I think the administration is stumbling badly on several fronts. I think I said in reference to the FCC Michael Powell bumbling, that when organizations as far apart as N.O.W. and the N.R.A. agree that something stinks, it's pretty much a given it does. The ACLU and several antiabortion groups think the Patriot Act is way to broad. Not only do Bush and Co. not know this is sign to at least appear to back off, Li'l Johnny cover-up-statue-tits is on the road having pep rallies, pretty much ensuring that papers all over te country will editorialize on what scray shit the legislation is. I think Karl Rove has had some sort of stroke and their keeping it covered up. |
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| Aug 27th, 2003 12:52 PM | ||
| sspadowsky |
Yeah, where is that walking crap-basket, anyway? Did he finally get tired of having his fat ass handed to him? That aside, it's heartening to see that people are catching on to the bullshit being spread by the DOJ. I hope more and more people wake up and fight this horrific piece of constitution-raping garbage. |
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| Aug 27th, 2003 12:45 PM | ||
| Protoclown | But I thought Vince more or less shuffled off defeated with his head hung in shame... | |
| Aug 27th, 2003 12:16 PM | ||
| mburbank |
Someone should tell Vinth that cancelling taxpayer funded tent shows like this one would be another great way to save enough money so we wouldn't have to cut endangerment pay to our troops! Gosh, the opportunities for savings just go on and on! |
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| Aug 27th, 2003 11:12 AM | ||
| sspadowsky |
From the Albany Times-Union: http://www.timesunion.com/AspStories...date=8/24/2003 Mr. Ashcroft, on the trail The attorney general campaigns in defense of the largely indefensible Patriot Act First published: Sunday, August 24, 2003 This is about politics, pure and simple. Not terrorism and not the level of law enforcement required to stop it. Attorney General John Ashcroft is off on a campaign-style swing through some states that will be critical to President Bush's re-election bid in defense of the Patriot Act for one reason and one reason only. The country is having second thoughts about the sweeping legislation passed so hastily after the Sept. 11 attacks. The very Congress that passed the law now wants to amend some of its most intrusive provisions. The people affected by a law that does far more to curtail civil liberties than enhance security demands as much. Some 150 municipalities, including Albany and Schenectady, along with the states of Alaska, Hawaii and Vermont, have passed resolutions condemning all or part of the law. So Mr. Ashcroft invokes Abraham Lincoln and Winston Churchill in his defense of the Patriot Act. He cites his own views as well, with his contention that the law has stopped subsequent terrorist attacks. Laura Murphy, director of the American Civil Liberties Union's Washington office, is among those who sees through Mr. Ashcroft's barnstorming tour. Hers is a most telling observation, that "there is a growing sense among regular Americans of all political stripes -- from the most right-wing to the most left -- that the Patriot Act went too far, too fast." The Bush administration's more skilled political practitioners -- the President himself, say, or his handler Karl Rove -- would have a hard enough time defending a series of laws that have never received the proper scrutiny. An example of their excesses would be the provision that allows what are known as "sneak-and-peek" searches. That means federal agents can secretly search a house or an office but delay notifying the target of the search. Mr. Ashcroft insists the prompt notification that would otherwise be required damages anti-terror investigations. Few people will fall for that one. Certainly nothing can be culled from the collected works of Mr. Churchill to defend such a thing. The House passed an amendment earlier in the summer that would cut off funding for that portion of the law. Credit for that assertion of civil liberties and common sense goes to Rep. C.L. "Butch" Otter, a conservative Republican from Idaho. As for other troublesome provisions of the Patriot Act, let's hear what Mr. Ashcroft has to say about, for example, the empowerment of a special intelligence court to issue grand jury-like subpoenas for business records. Or allowing agents to find out what individual suspects buy in bookstores and check out of libraries. The last time Mr. Ashcroft went off on such an extended campaign tour, it was in a losing attempt to keep his Senate seat in the 2000 election. His latest effort deserves no more success. |
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| Aug 27th, 2003 10:27 AM | ||
| sspadowsky |
PATRIOT Act op-ed http://www.berkshireeagle.com/Storie...584965,00.html Heeeere's Johnny Attorney General John Ashcroft's taxpayer-funded 18-city barnstorming tour to preach the virtues of the Patriot Act to choirs of law enforcement officials is a tacit admission that the law is in trouble. Newsweek reports that preparations include "ensuring that uniformed cops are seated in bleachers behind the AG during his visits." It's hard to read this with a straight face. What person worried about G-men monitoring their library use is going to be reassured by the sight of John Ashcroft in front of a phalanx of grim-faced policemen? It appears increasingly obvious that Mr. Ashcroft and the Bush administration are really not going to get away with the Patriot Act, enacted in a panic after the 9/11 attacks to give law enforcement officials unprecedented new powers to monitor suspected terrorists. Three states and 150 local governments have passed resolutions condemning the act for infringing on the Bill of Rights; some go so far as to forbid state and local law enforcement from cooperating with the feds when they invoke its extraordinary powers. Even the U.S. House has voted, 303 to 118, with 113 Republicans joining in, to restrain the Justice Department from using the "sneak and peek" provision of the law that allows secret searches of homes and businesses. When the American Civil Liberties Union files a lawsuit to have the Patriot Act declared unconstitutional, and it is supported by anti-abortion groups worried that abortion protesters could be targeted as "domestic terrorists," it is not business as usual in Washington. With both left and right quoting Benjamin Franklin's dictum: "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety," the administration is clearly worried about the electoral consequences. But it doesn't want to give up its enhanced police powers, it wants to expand them with the Victory (Vital Interdiction of Criminal Terrorist Organizations) Act. Hence the national dog and pony show. Our nation must be safe and secure, but at what price? The Bill of Rights was written by men who had direct experience of tyrants and their techniques of repression, and in 214 years it has produced the freest society in the history of mankind, one that defends the rights of the accused, tries to prevent the imprisonment of innocent persons, forbids torture and cruel and unusual punishment and affords its citizens freedoms of thought, inquiry, association and commercial activity that are the model of the civilized world. Sometimes we fall short in extending these freedoms to all citizens. Sometimes, as during the Red Scares of the 1920s and after the shock of 9/11, we fail to strike a balance between defending our shores and preserving our freedoms. But with time and the open debate that define our democracy, we correct our errors. |
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