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| May 16th, 2003 07:08 PM | |||||
| KevinTheOmnivore |
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I think you're mistaken in saying that the Times are "every bit the hacks every other paper is," because that's a lot of bad journalism you're throwing in there, especially against a paper that does a pretty decent job, IMO. Quote:
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| May 15th, 2003 12:59 PM | |||||
| mburbank | I sure am have been being, bar none. Many of us who are is as per the saying of it. | ||||
| May 15th, 2003 12:51 PM | |||||
| Protoclown |
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| May 14th, 2003 09:07 PM | |||||
| Les Waste |
You people are all uninformed.  Try this conversation after having the New York Times and Washington Post as fucking homework.
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| May 14th, 2003 08:15 PM | |||||
| El Blanco |
My point is, the Times is as bad as the News (maybe not the Post, they are uber-shitty). The Times reporters are every bit the hacks every other paper is. The Times just likes to take big words and butcher them. The News and Post don't even try to use words most of us don't use. I haven't use their liberal stanse in this argument. Believe me, I can point to plenty of instances, but that isn't the point. |
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| May 14th, 2003 07:06 PM | |||||
| theapportioner |
Depends on the extent, but if the damage isn't too bad, the Times will come out stronger in the long run. Raines may lose his job though. The outrage is appropriate, but some people, in their glee at seeing the Times seemingly toppled, are missing the point. On elitism, it may be a cultivated part of their image, a PR thing, but more importantly, journalists for respected newspapers such as the NY Times or the Wall Street Journal treat their profession as exactly that -- a profession. And these journalists are professionals. A profession with a well-defined ethical code of conduct, a sense of purpose to their craft. Something that can't be said for other newspapers, newsmagazines, tv news, etc. |
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| May 14th, 2003 05:06 PM | |||||
| KevinTheOmnivore |
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People who don't like the reporting of a certain paper or news outlet tend to have issues with it because they don't like what they're reporting, or their inability to report it "right." I am in the same boat, guilty as charged. I have often criticized the Times for being too conservative in their reporting, while many on the Right see it as a bastion of Liberal lying and deceit. Meanwhile, I spoke to a Communist friend of mine today, and he called the Times the most conservative paper he has ever read. It's like NPR. People on the Left call it "National Pentagon Radio," whereas folks on the Right call it "National Palestinian Radio." I'm more than convinced that if everybody hates you, on all sides of the spectrum, then you must be doing something right. Quote:
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Again, what do you want? We all like to read outlets and publications that reinforce our own opinions. Again, I go back to my point in the other thread. This isn't indicative of the Times, rather, it's indicative of journalism. Spinster is on to something. Would any other paper be as open, responsive, and as introspective on a matter such as this? IMO, this doesn't stand as a strike against the Times, rather, it stands as a testament to their rigorous editing procedures. |
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| May 14th, 2003 02:29 PM | |||||
| mburbank | I can go with that. | ||||
| May 14th, 2003 02:21 PM | |||||
| El Blanco | Hey, the Post is total crap and the News is only good for comics and sports. But, at least they both realize this. I agree with you that journalism altogether being crappy, but the Times is so haughty taughty you have to poke fun at them. | ||||
| May 14th, 2003 02:03 PM | |||||
| mburbank |
Have they tried the same experiemnt with other papers and made a comparative graph? I think a multi-inteliigence approach makes for the best learning. make them puppies use their math skills. If you like pretentious, I think the Wall Street Journals faux engravings take the cake. I don't choose to defend the Times. I choose to say again, the state of journalism in America is rotten. |
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| May 14th, 2003 01:28 PM | |||||
| El Blanco |
One of the many jokes in and about the NYC public school system is that teachers will bring in copies of the Times and hand them out to students. Research? No. Study writing styles? No. Expand vocabulary? Sort of. the assignment is to put the students into smaller group and each group has to produce a page of large words that were either mispelt or out of context. I have a few friends teaching in the system and they say that the students never come up short and rarely repeat each other. |
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| May 14th, 2003 12:16 PM | |||||
| mburbank |
I agree personally that the NYT is pretentious. But, what are you refering to it when you say folks who work there no it? I'm not doubting it, I'm wondering what you're making reference to. I think it's been at very least several years since any paper in the nation had the right to be proud of itself. |
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| May 14th, 2003 12:07 PM | |||||
| El Blanco | What is really funny is that people who are actually from New York know what a rag the Times actually is. Granted, the Post and News aren't beacons of journalistic integrity either, but atleast they don't have the pretentious bullshit attitude the Times likes to sport. | ||||
| May 14th, 2003 11:17 AM | |||||
| mburbank |
Reporters are plagerists. Reports, or 'stories', are plagerized. That being said, you that information was... where in the article you posted? AND, as I stated in the other thread already about this, all manner of crap journlism up to and inluding plagerism is a systemic problem. I would be very suprised if more isn't uncovered and the Times should be looking for it. Any Newsroom in the country that isn't having this meeting right now is arrogant and derelict in their duty. What do you think they should do right now, deny it happened? Say so what? Cover their ass? Or print a front page admission of the problem and immediately begin major efforts to fix the problems? Are you saying you really believe that if FOX news, the NY Post and the Manchester Union Leader held similar meetings, your fairly sure they wouldn't uncover similar practices? You really think this is an isolated event? |
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| May 14th, 2003 10:59 AM | |||||
| VinceZeb | New reports are coming in of more reports being plagerists, Max. | ||||
| May 14th, 2003 10:50 AM | |||||
| mburbank |
You read this, right? What do you or Drudge find shocking, surprising, or even noteworthy here? If the Times staff were NOT having a major policy meeting right now, THAT would be shocking. I'd assume they want to review their oversight and enforcement policies, see how this all happened and try to make sure it never happens again. What are you seeing here that I'm missing? Did you copy the whole thing? |
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| May 14th, 2003 09:29 AM | |||||
| VinceZeb |
New York Times calls emergency meeting.... XXXXX DRUDGE REPORT XXXXX TUE MAY 13, 2003 19:48:58 ET XXXXX EMERGENCY MEETING CALLED AT OLD GRAY LADY; NY TIMES NEWSROOM IN CRISIS [DRUDGE OBTAINED THIS INTERNAL E-MAIL TO NY TIMES STAFF] Howell, Gerald and Arthur request that you join your newsroom colleagues at an open forum at 2:30 p.m. Wednesday, May 14, to discuss the Jayson Blair matter and anything else you might have on your mind. The meeting will be held at the Loew's Astor Theater, the moviehouse just behind The Times on 44th Street at Broadway, across from Carmine's. Doors open at 2:15 p.m. Please be sure to bring your Times i.d. card. No one will be admitted to the theater without their Times i.d. You will be able to ask questions from the floor, or write them on cards that will be distributed at the door. In addition, we have set up an email address -- forum@nytimes.com -- where you can send questions, either in advance of the session or afterward. On Wednesday morning, we will send out a separate email advising correspondents and bureaus outside New York how they may dial into the forum and listen to the session. Unfortunately, because of the short time available to set up the forum, people listening from a remote location will not be able to ask live questions. You may, however, avail yourself of the email address above. If you get questions to us before 2 p.m. EDT tomorrow, we will put them into the hopper. Otherwise, they will be answered later. |
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