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May 17th, 2010 06:51 AM
Evil Robot FLUORIDE
May 16th, 2010 04:14 PM
Fathom Zero GREECE.
May 16th, 2010 03:42 PM
Tadao YOUR MOMS PUSSY
May 16th, 2010 03:02 PM
Fathom Zero STATE FARM
May 11th, 2010 03:21 PM
Colonel Flagg Disney
May 10th, 2010 11:39 PM
Evil Robot Coca Cola trades on the NYSE
May 10th, 2010 08:02 PM
Pentegarn
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blasted Child View Post
Pentegarn, fair enough, I can agree with what you're saying (however Kahljorn's "reply" leaves a bit to wish for), even though I think you may be splitting hairs a bit. It sounds a bit like when communists defend communism in the similar fashion ("what we've seen haven't been true communisms").
That's just it though, while communists can say that, they have no era where communism works effectively to use as a basis of comparison, while capitalism does. Yes, the stock market, speculation, and futures may be a side effect of free trade, (though I tend to call them a cancer, as I prefer investors be people shaking hands with other people as opposed to what we have in the stock market now) but they weren't always there, and when they weren't the economy was only effected by tangible occurrences like war and shortages. That is my point when I say "true capitalism" versus this mockery of capitalism we try to pass off as free trade and value for value nowadays.
May 10th, 2010 07:51 PM
Fathom Zero COCA COLA
May 10th, 2010 07:32 PM
Evil Robot Did you even know that there is more than one stock exchange? Your just focusing in on the DOW like a fucking laser beam and you havent even had one mention of the other markets.

Name one company that trades on the DOW. I don't mean go look it up, I mean off the top of your head. I bet you don't know.
May 10th, 2010 06:28 PM
Evil Robot You do understand that the market goes both up AND down right? If you were really as smart as you say you are you would have been overjoyed about the 400 point fall and bought stocks which were temporarily undervalued. Your like one of those assholes that thinks real estate can only go up in value.
May 10th, 2010 03:47 PM
TheCoolinator
Quote:
Originally Posted by Colonel Flagg View Post
By the way, the Dow is up over 350 points today. Should we make a new thread?
It will drop again. The only reason why it's going up is because they are signing the EU bailout bill. Once the bailout money evaporates we will see another market crash.

Ahhhh....Corporate Welfare! Zombie banks getting injections of liquid formaldehyde.
May 10th, 2010 03:40 PM
Colonel Flagg By the way, the Dow is up over 350 points today. Should we make a new thread?
May 10th, 2010 02:56 PM
TheCoolinator
Quote:
Originally Posted by Colonel Flagg View Post
No it didn't.
Proctor & Gambles stocks were slahed by half the other day because of derivatives debt and there was another stock that went from 40 dollars to a penny.

Hope those people invested in commodities because their paper backed assets just fell into the shredder.
May 10th, 2010 02:26 PM
Colonel Flagg No it didn't.
May 10th, 2010 01:13 PM
TheCoolinator
Quote:
Originally Posted by Colonel Flagg View Post
No need to state your theory twice, we all read it the first time.

Except maybe you?
lol, whoops.

Sorry, I don't pay too much attention to this thread. I probably should of said "Now I know for sure" that a hedgefund blew up and leaked there derivative debts onto the market hence the drop.
May 10th, 2010 12:56 PM
Evil Robot Everybody's stupid except for you coolie, you ******.
May 10th, 2010 12:55 PM
Evil Robot
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCoolinator View Post
I heard that they reason why it fell was because a Hedgefund busted and all of those worthless derivatives were shown to the market.

Proctor and Gamble's derivative dabbling took their stock from 60 to 30.

I wonder how many more will succumb to this derivative mess.
Yeah fuck that shit. We should abandon the stock market so nobody can raise money for large projects and just go back to trading beads for pieces of cloth.
May 10th, 2010 12:41 PM
Colonel Flagg
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCoolinator View Post
I heard that one of the hedgefunds blew out and that's why the market dropped so fast.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCoolinator View Post
I heard that they reason why it fell was because a Hedgefund busted and all of those worthless derivatives were shown to the market.
No need to state your theory twice, we all read it the first time.

Except maybe you?
May 10th, 2010 11:13 AM
TheCoolinator I heard that they reason why it fell was because a Hedgefund busted and all of those worthless derivatives were shown to the market.

Proctor and Gamble's derivative dabbling took their stock from 60 to 30.

I wonder how many more will succumb to this derivative mess.
May 10th, 2010 08:46 AM
Zhukov
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pentegarn View Post
Real capitalism does not exist any more so the argument that capitalism is a failed system can't be truly proven by any event in the last century
It might sound like I am a huge hypocrite here, but the difference (or at least, what I see the as difference) between saying:

"That wasn't true communism" (which, I probably said a lot in my more-youthier times)

and

"It's not true capitalism"

Is 1) the simple answer is that communism is a stateless society, and the 'Communist' parties of the 20th century merely called themselves Communist because that's what they purported to be aiming for, not what they actually had achieved, which I can delve into further if you REALLY want to

2) The 'speculation, futures, stocks' etc are all 'symptoms' (yes, you beat me to it) of what you can call the healthy capitalist time period. Communism has had no such period. All the foundations for what you see as just not true capitalism were lain there, and it hasn't taken any serious revolutions to get to where it is now. It has evolved into what it is now, at no ones surprise, from 'true capitalism', with no other avenue available to it. Is it still wrong to criticise capitalism if baseless trading was always the inevitable conclusion?

You could argue that Stalin did this, evolved it, but he couldn't do it without killing opponents, changing laws and principles and contradicting himself, other communists and also the ideals of the whole thing. So much so that the question has to be asked "what is left?" the answer being "very little".

You can say it's not true capitalism, but the world is still run by the capitalists who have legally evolved it without contradicting what has always been the number one ideal; capital making money. Capitalism isn't about trading tangible item A with tangible item B; they had that in ancient Greece too. Any laws you are talking about are to do with a country, not an economic system, because the economic system just says "make capital". That used to mean through owning a factory and making shoes, now it means through buying and selling as well as owning the factory.

If we are going to leave it as it's "symptomatic of capitalism" that's fine by me though.
May 10th, 2010 08:28 AM
kahljorn money doesn't really exist anyway
May 10th, 2010 07:40 AM
Blasted Child Pentegarn, fair enough, I can agree with what you're saying (however Kahljorn's "reply" leaves a bit to wish for), even though I think you may be splitting hairs a bit. It sounds a bit like when communists defend communism in the similar fashion ("what we've seen haven't been true communisms").

For most people, economists included, value-for-value trading isn't some sort of mandatory ingredient of a financial capitalism. However, the complex system of financial intermediaries that toy with money that isn't theirs is sort of a cornerstone.

Let's at least agree that the whole process of spending money that doesn't exist is symptomatic of a capitalism. It's also precisely what's caused the recent crisis.
May 10th, 2010 06:34 AM
Pentegarn The problem with blaming capitalism is you are blaming something disguised as capitalism for everything when the actual case is that all those things, (speculation, futures, market shares, et al) are not the true meaning of capitalism as it was meant to be.

Capitalism should be trading value for value. Things like speculation, futures, stocks, and the like are not true capitalism, where person A has a tangible thing person B needs and person A makes the best quality of that thing available. That was how it was once long long ago and when it was that way, America did nothing but grow, it wasn't until the stock market was introduced that these intangible financial crises began to appear. Before that, it was all about real events effecting the market (like Blasted mentioned, shortages, war, etc).

Real capitalism does not exist any more so the argument that capitalism is a failed system can't be truly proven by any event in the last century
May 10th, 2010 05:05 AM
Zhukov I was thinking the exact same thing; I don't see how "Oops, it was a typo/computer error" really makes the whole structure of things look any more reassuring.




Also, Kahl, I was under the impression that it did.
May 10th, 2010 04:18 AM
kahljorn it doesn't really have anything to do with capitalism.
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