| Sep 22nd, 2006 01:16 PM |
| ItalianStereotype |
shush, I do not recognize Fagstanbul.
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| Sep 22nd, 2006 06:56 AM |
| Courage the Cowardly Dog |
istanbul and constantinople first istanbul then constantinople, even old new york was once new amsterdam, why they changed it i cant say, people just liked it better that way. Istanbul now it's turkish delight on a moonlit night.
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| Sep 21st, 2006 10:43 PM |
| ItalianStereotype |
NOT ISTANBUL, NEVER
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| Sep 21st, 2006 09:55 PM |
| Courage the Cowardly Dog |
on the other hand 3 murderous christians in indonesia where executed despite the pope asking for clemencly. The 3 were found duilty of multiple murders and serial killings. I guess all religions can be tards.
Personally I'm glad they were executed though.
Oh and isn't Constantinople Istabmbul now? You know it's turkish delight on a moonlit night.
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| Sep 20th, 2006 10:45 PM |
| ItalianStereotype |
Onward, to Constantinople!
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| Sep 20th, 2006 04:53 PM |
| KevinTheOmnivore |
Time for another Holy League, Eye Tie!
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| Sep 20th, 2006 04:41 PM |
| ItalianStereotype |
typical Islamic reactions showing.
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| Sep 20th, 2006 02:02 PM |
| Ant10708 |
A Pakistani foreign-ministry spokeswoman responded: “Anyone who describes Islam as a religion as intolerant encourages violence.”
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| Sep 18th, 2006 10:18 PM |
| Courage the Cowardly Dog |
to be honest the pope didn't so much apologize as he said "I'm sorry it offends you" Iran is demanding a retraction.
Of course after seeing the response I don't think he will retract. How many christians go on a murderous rampage when South park air's a Jesus joke? I know a lot get mad, but they keep it in perspective. (well a better perspective then firebombing comedy central)
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| Sep 18th, 2006 03:31 PM |
| ItalianStereotype |
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Originally Posted by I, fuzzbot.
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It'll be the Christians living in the Middle East who have their churches bombed and their neighborhoods terrorized
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lolz.
Yeah, that's totally what's gonna happen!
I think you're mistaking what's in the news with reality. There's a difference. |
boy, your face must be red
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| Sep 18th, 2006 01:28 PM |
| mburbank |
Okay. Fair enough.
I think there are just a fairly large number of furious Muslims right now, and furious people tend to point there fury wherever someone sets up a big, convenient target. Misplaced, sure, but predictable. That's why I think people should be furious less.
And Ratzi is a poo poo. It's the first thing I agree with Hitchens about in, like, five years, minimum.
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| Sep 18th, 2006 12:07 PM |
| Chojin |
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Mohammed al-Nujeimi, a bitchy little professor with a brand new handbag at the Institute of Judicial and Islamic Studies in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, also criticized the pope's statement while being gay.
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lol :<
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| Sep 18th, 2006 11:57 AM |
| KevinTheOmnivore |
Because their fury, as usual, is terribly misplaced. Also, if you took Fuzzy for his word, than virtually no muslims are really upset by this.
You're right about Hitchens, though. He is very consistent about his atheism, as annoying as it often can get. I too thought the Pope should've apologized, as I've already said. I don't think it was so much a calculated move, as it was Benedict failing to take into account that he isn't some Vatican academic who is going to have every word scrutinized. He's the figurehead of the faith, and he needs to be smarter about it.
BUT.....the reason he needs to be smarter about it is b/c of the ridiculous response we're seeing right now. So the grand irony in it all is that he quoted a medieval passage talking about the violent nature of Islam, muslims get upset, and then say nothing about the violence enacted against churches! Right, right.....it's so few muslims, just ignore them!
I wish I could set up a good vending business on the "Arab street". I'd make a killing, with how often they take to the streets in self-righteous outrage. The crux of the pope's speech was actually about the secular West. Where are the massive protests in Britain, New York, and LA? Why no church burnings there? Why hasn't a group of rabid secualrists gunned down a nun yet?
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| Sep 18th, 2006 11:36 AM |
| mburbank |
Maybe I'm just stung by Kevins katty comments about my not adressing issues, but I thought I'd throw into the mix a link to an article by Christopher Hitchens article on this mess. Once a wild eyed liberal provocateur, he has for these last several years been quite the apologist for both the WAR ON TERROR and Bush. I was surprised to find that Hitch, who is not very sympathetic to Muslims and even less so to people who are, doesn't much care for Ratzenberger either.
While I hold no brief for violence in response to words, I think it would be foolish to suppose that Ratzi wasn't fully aware what he said would be taken as provocative. My question, is what sort of response (beyond the scholarly confines of his immediatte audience) was he looking for? I think that's a worthwhile and interesting question and that the barbaric response his speech has gotten does not make the question vanish. It simply means there are two issues, thematically linked, both worth examining.
http://www.slate.com/id/2149863
also, out of curiosity, Kev, why 'Fury' instead of just fury? They seem furios to me. Do your quotations imply that they are not actually furios, that their fury is about something else entirely or that while they may be furios, they have no right to their fury?
I doubt I disagree, since I think fury is almost always an inappropriatte response, but I won't know until you tell me what you mean.
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| Sep 17th, 2006 07:18 PM |
| Courage the Cowardly Dog |
WTF?
The Pope calls some islaamic teachings inhuman and violent. (some of them are)
In response some muslims (and i use the term loosely) respond with INHUMAN VIOLENCE! And the rest of the Muslims int he world hold their head in shame cause someone makes them look like a retard.
I do it everytime someone says christians are deluded retards and then they catch some polygamous child molesting church leader the next day. One rotten apple (okay a LOT of them) makes us all look like retards.
Remind me to use that defense if i ever go to court for murder, i'll just tell the judge "i'm innocent and i'll kill you if you dont say i am"
Reminds me of the stupid comic debaucle this summer.
Idealogy can not be spread by the sword, but by debate and logical reasoning.
War is for defense not "you hurt my feelings"
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| Sep 17th, 2006 10:28 AM |
| Preechr |
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060917/...u/pope_muslims
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Originally Posted by Kevin
It'll be the Christians living in the Middle East who have their churches bombed and their neighborhoods terrorized
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Originally Posted by news
Earlier Sunday in the West Bank, two churches were set on fire as anger over the pope's comments grew throughout the Palestinian territories.
In the town of Tulkarem, a 170-year-old stone church was torched before dawn and its interior was destroyed, Christian officials said. In the village of Tubas, a small church was attacked with firebombs and partially burned, Christians said. Neither church is Catholic, the officials said.
Palestinian Muslims hurled firebombs and opened fire at five churches in the West Bank and Gaza Strip Saturday to protest the Pope's comments, sparking concerns of a rift between Palestinian Muslims and Christians.
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...
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Originally Posted by news
"At this time I wish also to add that I am deeply sorry for the reactions in some countries to a few passages of my address at the University of Regensburg, which were considered offensive to the sensibility of Muslims," the pope said Sunday.
Muslim leaders in the Mideast gave mixed reactions to the pontiff's apology.
Mahmoud Ashour, the whiny and petulant former deputy of Cairo's Al-Azhar Mosque, the Sunni Arab world's most powerful institution, told Al-Arabiya TV immediately after the pope's speech that, "It is not enough. He should apologize because he insulted the beliefs of Islam. He must apologize in a frank way and say he made a mistake."
Mohammed al-Nujeimi, a bitchy little professor with a brand new handbag at the Institute of Judicial and Islamic Studies in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, also criticized the pope's statement while being gay.
"The pope does not want to apologize. He is evading apology and what he said today is a repetition of his previous statement," he told Al-Arabiya TV.
The Vatican released a statement Saturday saying the pope "sincerely regrets" that Muslims were offended, but stopped short of the apology demanded by many Muslim leaders.
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...
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Originally Posted by news
But the leader of Egypt's largest Islamic political group, the Muslim Brotherhood, said that "while anger over the Pope's remarks is necessary, it shouldn't last for long."
"While he is the head of the Catholic Church in the world, many Europeans are not following (the church) so what he said won't influence them. Our relations with Christians should remain good, civilized and cooperative," Mohammed Mahdi Akef told The Associated Press.
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Now, does that last bit infer that were the pope more influential his words would have warranted violence?
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| Sep 17th, 2006 09:13 AM |
| KevinTheOmnivore |
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Originally Posted by I, fuzzbot.
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It'll be the Christians living in the Middle East who have their churches bombed and their neighborhoods terrorized
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lolz.
Yeah, that's totally what's gonna happen!
I think you're mistaking what's in the news with reality. There's a difference. |
Italian nun shot dead in Somalia
Somali Islamists urge Muslims to slay Pope
Churches firebombed as Muslims demand further apology
Iran seminaries shut in protest at Pope remarks
Maybe if we just ignore it, it will all go away, right Fuzzy? Like you said, the Pope already apologized. What more should he do?
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| Sep 16th, 2006 02:10 PM |
| Abcdxxxx |
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Originally Posted by I, fuzzbot.
Geggy does have a clue....
ABC-
Your arguments are full of assumptions. You don't know where he got his figures, yet you don't support your argument at all by telling me why his figures are wrong. You assumed it came froma Palestinian source - how would you know?
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Okay so you're validating Geggy and resorting to the "you can't prove it you weren't there" argument. Glad I bothered now. Fuzzbot, people were there, like the International Red Cross who used these figures before eventually denouncing them (June 25, 1982, Washington Post). Arafat's brother was in charge of the Red Crescent who issued these figures. If you want to dispute it, respond with something besides disbelief. One doesn't assume truths, just as one doesn't assume fallacies - one learns them. I pointed out factual errors in his Op-ed piece that you've mistaken for investigative journalism. I hope you can break through that cultural barrier of yours to understand that.
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Furthermore, I'm pretty sure an Israeli guy who has lived in Israel all his life, teaches at one of the best Israeli universities has way more to say than just some dumb American Jew. The guy actually lived through it, read his other articles to find out more. Hilarious that you'd dismiss him as a conspiracy theorist
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Do you even know what a conspiracy theoriest is? How about a Holocaust denier? See Geggy in the dictionary. I never called your "Israeli guy" a conspiracist, I called him wrong, pointing out why, and accused him of embracing disinformation as many Israeli leftists are prone to do because it fits their agenda. The best you can do is say he's "lived in Israel all his life" - even THAT'S not true.
So h'bout we get this conversation back on track, because your problem still isn't the Zionists, and 49.9% of mid-east Arabs support Bin laden, according to last weeks Al-Jazeera poll. http://translate.google.com/translat...language_tools
And when UK Muslims were polled, 24% said the bus bombings were justified, and 1/3 of all polled wanted to live under Sharia laws in Britain. http://news.scotsman.com/uk.cfm?id=1145782006
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| Sep 16th, 2006 12:40 PM |
| ziggytrix |
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Originally Posted by ScruU2wice
I'm pretty sure we have this same argument everytime Islam and Muslim are mentioned on this board.
Let's just settle the score this one time and just lay down that Islam is an evil and violent religion that has no hope of accomplishing anything but horrible horrible evil. and violence. And that doesn't just stop at a few muslims, the pacifist muslims are just as bad sitting on their asses. Oh yeah and there's nothing you can do about it, because Islam is inherently evil I mean there are literally hundreds of out of context Koranic quotes to back it up. Umm what else am I forgetting? oh yeah cartoons of Prophet Mohammad are hilarious, not for their comical value, but just because they're so edgy, and any Muslim offended at them are flag burning rock throwing Jihadis. Ummm let's see, yeah all muslims should be held under suspicion, for something.
I think we should just establish these axioms before we even start a discussion about islam.
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That should be sticked as part of the rules for this forum.
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| Sep 16th, 2006 10:12 AM |
| KevinTheOmnivore |
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Originally Posted by I, fuzzbot.
Hey you arrogant piece of dick, a stupid example doesn't prove anything I've said wrong. 24 fucking people out of 2 million British Muslims is still not fucking evidence, how stupid are you? That's like saying religious serial killers like John Wayne Gacey represent Christianity for what they did, and unless you're as ignorant as you come off then you may as well go ahead and equate Christianity with murder.
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No,no,no......now you want to twist the argument around because you don't have one.
First you wanted to say that those who act like idiots in the ME are a small, marginalized minority who are ignoraant and poor. You then said look at the other countries, they don't act like this! i showed you that educated, European born people DO indeed act this way. Now what would bind a college educated Briton and one of the poor, ignorant muslims you keep straw manning? Why would the two act for the same purpose? What drives them?
If you want to talk about Christians killing people, let's do it. Christians have had that conversation, it was actually what the fucking pope was talking about. The problem is that your religion is not ready for that talk, so you just IGNORE your bad elements and treat them like children. maybe that works for someone like you, who maybe doesn't have to deal with it where you live. But those children are
There were large protests in Europe over a fucking cartoon. The three examples I gave are the tip of the iceberg.
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Geggy does have a clue, you see, if you stopped whining like the bloated piece of shit that you are and started listening to what people have to say, you'd actually start getting a clue too. But you're not willing to listen, and I've yet to see you treat anyone here with respect. You really do know how to debate, huh? 
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If you actually have read this board, you'd know many of us have tried repeatedly with Geggy, to no avail. And if you think bringing up Waco or something is actually making a point, you're more lost and ignorant than I thought. Are you one of these very few muslims you keep referring to?
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| Sep 16th, 2006 06:51 AM |
| Ant10708 |
Hey guys, white people kill people too! HAHAHA
Take that Kevin!
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| Sep 16th, 2006 06:17 AM |
| imported_I, fuzzbot. |
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Originally Posted by KevinTheOmnivore
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Originally Posted by I, fuzzbot.
This is amazing. So, when it comes to this stuff, one guy represents every Muslim in the world. But when it comes to things like Iraq and marines killing civilians "in cold blood," it's just a bunch of marines who don't represent America's overall service in Iraq.
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Hey douche bag, you asked "do you see American Muslims, British Muslims, Danish Muslims, French Muslims, etc, resort to these things?", and I answered your question.
You want to be a dumb apologist and equate all of these things with poverty and ignorance. If you don't want to be proven wrong, then shut the hell up.
Oh, and Geggy.....you're adorable. I love it when you pretend to have a clue. |
Hey you arrogant piece of dick, a stupid example doesn't prove anything I've said wrong. 24 fucking people out of 2 million British Muslims is still not fucking evidence, how stupid are you? That's like saying religious serial killers like John Wayne Gacey represent Christianity for what they did, and unless you're as ignorant as you come off then you may as well go ahead and equate Christianity with murder.
Geggy does have a clue, you see, if you stopped whining like the bloated piece of shit that you are and started listening to what people have to say, you'd actually start getting a clue too. But you're not willing to listen, and I've yet to see you treat anyone here with respect. You really do know how to debate, huh?
ABC-
Your arguments are full of assumptions. You don't know where he got his figures, yet you don't support your argument at all by telling me why his figures are wrong. You assumed it came froma Palestinian source - how would you know? You don't. Stop assuming, start finding evidence, shitface.
Furthermore, I'm pretty sure an Israeli guy who has lived in Israel all his life, teaches at one of the best Israeli universities has way more to say than just some dumb American Jew. The guy actually lived through it, read his other articles to find out more. Hilarious that you'd dismiss him as a conspiracy theorist, that just makes University of Tel Aviv really dangerous, even if you openly bragged about it before!
Look at all these grown ups guys. They really know what they're talking about and they'll keep kicking until someone stops talking. No evidence, nothing. Just a few insulting words and a threat to lock the thread.
Man, Burbank really needs to start frequenting this place to put these goons back to where they belong.
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| Sep 16th, 2006 02:57 AM |
| Abcdxxxx |
Eh, I forgot who I was talking to for a second, I'm not going to waste much time on this....
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Let's start with a few facts. We invaded a sovereign state, and occupied its capital in 1982.
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Lebanon was far from Soveriegn in 1982, with Arafat and his PLO regrouping from their failed coup attempt in Jordan by occupying Lebanon with 18,000 troops, and another 5,000 foriegn mercenaries. How soveriegn are you with a terrorist group armed with Russian tanks at your border? The PLO was responsible for 275 terror attacks against Israel in 1981, and countless horrific abuses against native Lebanese. When Israel complied with Resolutions 425 (which was issued in 1978, four years before they invaded Beirut) and 426 in 2000, Lebanon had yet to reclaim it’s Southern territory from militia factions.
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Approximately 14,000 civilians were killed between June and September of 1982, according to a conservative estimate.
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These figures were never varified. Some came from the Palestine Red Crescent, headed by Arafat’s brother. We’re also talking about attributing death tolls for an entire period of civil war, to Israel, who were a third party.
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In Operations Accountability and Grapes of Wrath, we caused the mass flight of about 500,000 refugees from southern Lebanon on each occasion. There are no exact data on the number of casualties in these operations, but one can recall that in Operation Grapes of Wrath, we bombed a shelter in the village of Kafr Kana which killed 103 civilians.
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Your irrefutable author goes on to admit these deaths were accidental, but it’s because of the memory of these unfortunate casualties that Israel was so quick to accept responsibility in Kana again for what turned out to be falsified and manipulated claims with the fictionalized massacre. The disasterous bombing of 1996 led to disbanding the entire operation, and a precedence for Israel ending their manuevers in vain. This was only two months prior to the vulnerable Israeli elections during the Palestinian peace process, and resulted in ‘the Grapes of Wrath Understanding” of April, 1996, a US proposal which served as the closest thing to a treaty between Lebanon, Syria and Israel. It would also serve as the blueprint for UN Resolution 1559. The moral of that story is to finish what you start, or you will be back where you started irregardless of your own personal wishes.
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On July 28, 1989, we kidnapped Sheikh Obeid, and on May 12, 1994, we kidnapped Mustafa Dirani, who had captured Ron Arad. Israel held these two people and another 20-odd Lebanese detainees without trial, as "negotiating chips.
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Here the author appears to be inadvertantly arguing that you can’t negotiate with terrorists. Dirani was the subject of succesfull negotiations for a prisoner exchange. Sheikh Obeid was held responsible for kidnapping and murdering an American Colonel who was serving a UN peacekeeping mission, and was used in negotiations. So okay, Israel didn’t get Ron Arad but they did get an Israeli businessman, a group of Israeli Arabs, and the remains of some kidnapped IDF soldiers.
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Approximately 25 Israeli civilians have been killed as a result of Katyusha missiles to date. The number of dead in Lebanon, the vast majority comprised of civilians who have nothing to do with Hezbollah, is more than 300.
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So Israel’s morality should be weighed by Hezbollah’s ability to kill Jews succesfully? It’s clear that Hezbollah would kill as many Jews as possible if they had the ability and if they could increase death tolls, they would not hesitate to do it. What’s not in dispute is Israel’s ability to wipe Lebanon or Syria off the map if they so desired. But that hasn’t happened, and that puts an end to the question of Israel’s morals.
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| Sep 16th, 2006 01:06 AM |
| KevinTheOmnivore |
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Originally Posted by I, fuzzbot.
This is amazing. So, when it comes to this stuff, one guy represents every Muslim in the world. But when it comes to things like Iraq and marines killing civilians "in cold blood," it's just a bunch of marines who don't represent America's overall service in Iraq.
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Hey douche bag, you asked "do you see American Muslims, British Muslims, Danish Muslims, French Muslims, etc, resort to these things?", and I answered your question.
You want to be a dumb apologist and equate all of these things with poverty and ignorance. If you don't want to be proven wrong, then shut the hell up.
Oh, and Geggy.....you're adorable. I love it when you pretend to have a clue.
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| Sep 16th, 2006 12:48 AM |
| ScruU2wice |
I'm pretty sure we have this same argument everytime Islam and Muslim are mentioned on this board.
Let's just settle the score this one time and just lay down that Islam is an evil and violent religion that has no hope of accomplishing anything but horrible horrible evil. and violence. And that doesn't just stop at a few muslims, the pacifist muslims are just as bad sitting on their asses. Oh yeah and there's nothing you can do about it, because Islam is inherently evil I mean there are literally hundreds of out of context Koranic quotes to back it up. Umm what else am I forgetting? oh yeah cartoons of Prophet Mohammad are hilarious, not for their comical value, but just because they're so edgy, and any Muslim offended at them are flag burning rock throwing Jihadis. Ummm let's see, yeah all muslims should be held under suspicion, for something.
I think we should just establish these axioms before we even start a discussion about islam.
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