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Feb 9th, 2003 10:14 PM
KevinTheOmnivore
Quote:
Originally Posted by Helm
Okay I'll relax. Your analogy was off hawever. Hitler and his work was the glorification of fascism, it was fascism done 'right' so to speak. Stalin's pogroms were the deprivation of communism. The difference is substantial.
Do you honestly think that genocide is a staple in the fascist ideology. Just like Stalin's communism, fascism merely has the potential to lead to oppression, murder, and genocide.



Quote:
And I am not saying Lenin was a saint. I am saying he is a historically significant figure that stood for the red flag, and whose total historical input cannot be considered negative.
Fine, but much like we can't forget the holocaust when looking at the German flag, we likewise can't forget the fear, death, and persecution that came out of the Soviet regime. And Zero made a good point, the poor record didn't end with Stalin.

Quote:
Anyway, I understand what you're saying, I just wish you wouldn't use such black & white examples, even when trying to make a point that's understandable by dumbfucks like Jerseylad.
Right, but the point I was making however was that the things that often offend people are highly subjective, and one man's evil can be another man's good. Hence my "black & white" example.
Feb 9th, 2003 09:44 PM
theapportioner
Quote:
You haven't read it but you are keen to make judgements against it anyway. Fantastic!
A quick google search points to hundreds of rebuttals. Make that a validated judgment.

Paleontology is not my specialty (nor yours, I assume), but it's amazing how the same few tired criticisms stay around in creationist circles. It's like these people can never learn. The absence of transitional fossils in so-called higher organisms is explained nicely by Stephen Jay Gould's theory of punctuated equilibria, which is a modification of classical evolutionary theory.
Feb 9th, 2003 09:20 PM
Zero Signal
Quote:
Originally Posted by theapportioner
I haven't read it, but there are plenty of rebuttals to the text, so I'd hardly call the burden proved on your point.
You haven't read it but you are keen to make judgements against it anyway. Fantastic!

My favorite flaw in evolution is that there are only tertiary fossils and no fossils whatsoever that show progression. They've got a lizard and a bird, and something that's like a combination, but nothing at all in between. I guess they all just changed overnight.
Feb 9th, 2003 07:03 PM
theapportioner
Quote:
The odds were calculated well into the trillions against it (I wish I could remember where I saw that).
Darwin's Black Box, by Michael Behe.

I haven't read it, but there are plenty of rebuttals to the text, so I'd hardly call the burden proved on your point.
Feb 9th, 2003 06:52 PM
theapportioner Whether or not homosexuality is biological or social (I personally think it consists of both, and that it's too complex to reduce it to one component or the other) -- what is the harm? It's not like they're gassing Kurds.
Feb 9th, 2003 05:53 PM
The_Rorschach
Eh

Same with the comparison to murderers and child-molesters, Ror.

Actually, no its not. Homosexuality is an aberration from the norm, and so is child molestation, beastiality and the like. In fact, it is no different save in its acceptability within society. It is an inclination that is given in to, and not strictly natural. You mentioned my subconscious earlier so I will assume you know a bit about psychology - Therefore I will also assume you know that in most documented cases of studied homosexuality, it is (according to modern pundits, and not myself) not a biological need finding fulfillment, but experiences from early childhood raising and handling which have affected the individuals sexual desires.

You cite animals as a case for it being 'normal,' but I believe that is putting our standards for human behaviour rather low. Besides, animals are not strictly homosexual, and generally couple with the same gender out of lack of alternative, or seeking immediate gratification.
Feb 7th, 2003 12:01 AM
Zero Signal I am a creationist, but at the same time, even if I was a die-hard atheist, the theory of evolution is too illogical and too full of holes for me to believe. I'm sure you think the same about creationism, but that is not the issue here.

Yes, Italian, those people that believe the Earth was created 6000 years ago are idiots. I am someone that believes that science and creationism are not diametrically opposed. I believe the Earth is as old as science says it is.

But I cannot for one second find anything credible in the theory of evolution. I do believe in microevolution, but not that everything came from a single-celled organism.

The odds were calculated well into the trillions against it (I wish I could remember where I saw that). Anyway, back to the previous dicussion, already in progress.
Feb 6th, 2003 11:53 PM
ItalianStereotype he might be a creationist, which i am. not one of those silly fucks that thinks the earth was created 5000 years ago, though.

natural doesnt necessarily mean genetic, but too many people take the definition of natural and twist it to meet their standards. any way you look at it, homosexuality is not natural in biological terms.
Feb 6th, 2003 11:49 PM
theapportioner "Natural" in this case does not necessarily mean genetic.

And just how is evolution a "crock of convoluted shit"????
Feb 6th, 2003 11:41 PM
Zero Signal Evolution would say that homosexuality is NOT natural, because it does not serve to perpetuate the species. Just an observation. Not that I believe in evolution; I think it's a crock of convoluted shit.
Feb 6th, 2003 08:41 PM
Protoclown I dig the black girls, oh so much more than the white girls.
I was so pleased to learn they were faster.
C'est, c'est, c'est vous I'm after.
Feb 6th, 2003 08:02 PM
ranxer dang whered kal go? ..i still want to know what the hell he meant by 'if you dont like my avatar then stop playing video games'

people ARE animals
from the research ive seen homosexuality increases in percent with population crowding.. of course its everpresent in most species.. some think its a natural population control factor
Feb 6th, 2003 06:55 PM
Miss Modular
Re: Ugh

Quote:
Many animals have homosexual urges as well.
This is what I was about to say.
Feb 6th, 2003 06:42 PM
Vibecrewangel
Ugh

Quote:
not that this is on topic or anything, but the urge to kill is natural, the urge for hetero sex is natural, but the urge for homo sex is arguable.

As someone who feels both hetro and homo sexual urges, I can tell you they are both natural and real. Unfortunately, we have been taught for a long long time that homosexual feelings aren't natural.
Many animals have homosexual urges as well.
Feb 6th, 2003 06:12 PM
ItalianStereotype not that this is on topic or anything, but the urge to kill is natural, the urge for hetero sex is natural, but the urge for homo sex is arguable.

i agree with ror here, you are judged by your actions, not the emotions, thoughts, beliefs, or reasons fueling them.
Feb 6th, 2003 06:05 PM
sspadowsky
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Rorschach
Think about it Sspad. This is no different than the fat fuckers in denial of their own responsibility for their weight gain and instead attempting to sue McDonalds.

I'm not saying the choice is wrong, or invalid, or makes them less of a person. . .But it is willful. Everyone has to take responsibility for what they do. Not the feelings which inspire the actions, but the action itself.

Or do you think criminals have no choice in breaking the law? That murderers have no choice but to kill? How is this any different?

What if a priest said "Damn this social ostracization and mass-condemnation! If only I had never fucked a six year old boy in the ass, I wouldn't be in this quandary!"
There's a big difference between someone eating at McDonald's and being gay. The impulse to have sexual intercourse, be it straight or gay, is perfectly natural, and a part of all of us. This is a totally weak comparison, Ror. You have to do a lot better than that.

Same with the comparison to murderers and child-molesters, Ror. Incidentally, I think these comparisons of yours are awfully telling as far as your subconscious is concerned. The urge to kill someone and the urge to fuck someone are way, WAY different. Two men or two women who have consensual sex with one another is quite different than me blowing your head off for disagreeing with me, and different from wanting to fuck small children.

Gotta go. Back later.
________
BODY SCIENCE
Feb 6th, 2003 05:39 PM
Paul138 I've got an idea. Let's be racist against the Blue Man Group. If people feel inferior by having a small penis and being around a different color, who wouldn't hate them?
Feb 6th, 2003 05:30 PM
The_Rorschach Think about it Sspad. This is no different than the fat fuckers in denial of their own responsibility for their weight gain and instead attempting to sue McDonalds.

I'm not saying the choice is wrong, or invalid, or makes them less of a person. . .But it is willful. Everyone has to take responsibility for what they do. Not the feelings which inspire the actions, but the action itself.

Or do you think criminals have no choice in breaking the law? That murderers have no choice but to kill? How is this any different?

What if a priest said "Damn this social ostracization and mass-condemnation! If only I had never fucked a six year old boy in the ass, I wouldn't be in this quandary!"
Feb 6th, 2003 05:05 PM
sspadowsky
Quote:
I can grant you that point, however, one cannot be judged upon feelings or thoughts which they do not express. In the case of homosexuality, if the feeling or inclination is never acted upon, never expressed, then there will be no consequences.

It is the behaviour itself which prompts the reaction of discrimination, rather, it is not homosexuality itself which is discriminated against, but homosexual actions. For that reason, I say it is a choice.
This could quite possibly be the dumbest thing you have ever said in your entire life. Choice, my lily-white ass. I'm sure that all homosexuals chastise themselves daily for acting on thier impulses. "Damn this social ostracization and mass-condemnation! If only I had never fucked a man in the ass, I wouldn't be in this quandary!"

I'm not kidding, Ror. Go back and re-read what you wrote, and try to spot the total lack of logic. I'm not trying to be an outright prick here, man. I'm honestly dumbfounded by the stupidity of your statement.
________
Uggs
Feb 6th, 2003 04:41 PM
The_Rorschach I can grant you that point, however, one cannot be judged upon feelings or thoughts which they do not express. In the case of homosexuality, if the feeling or inclination is never acted upon, never expressed, then there will be no consequences.

It is the behaviour itself which prompts the reaction of discrimination, rather, it is not homosexuality itself which is discriminated against, but homosexual actions. For that reason, I say it is a choice.
Feb 6th, 2003 04:39 PM
Vibecrewangel
SEX

I am actually more attracted to women then men. I like the curvy bits......
Feb 6th, 2003 04:31 PM
FS
Quote:
I am of Irish descent. I cannot change it through denial or restraint, however, I can control my heterosexuality. I can be abstinate, or homosexual, or prey on small animals too slow to escape me. If something can be avoided, and it is not, it is chosen. That is why I see it as I do.
Hmm. Yes, but that's only taking sexual activity into consideration. I'm not having a lot of sex, but that doesn't mean I'm not a heterosexual. Sexual orientation/preference, despite the wording, is not based on sex, but on attraction. You say you can be homosexual, but that's not true. You can have sex with men, yes, but you can't be sexually and emotionally attracted to men to the point that you'd want a phsyical or emotional relationship with them - unless you're homosexual or bisexual. At least, this is how I see it.
Feb 6th, 2003 04:31 PM
Vibecrewangel
Ror

It was.
Feb 6th, 2003 04:23 PM
The_Rorschach I'll take that as a compliment
Feb 6th, 2003 04:15 PM
Vibecrewangel
Ror

You sound like my boyfriend......and my family.......
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