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Mar 24th, 2003 12:00 AM
Protoclown And yet you CONDONE murder in situations where the mother would die or in cases of rape. So murder is clearly NOT always wrong by your own reasoning.
Mar 23rd, 2003 09:33 PM
VinceZeb Abortion is murder. Murder is wrong. It is a moral wrong. The laws of the land can make it right all it wants, but its still a wrong doing.
Mar 23rd, 2003 06:53 PM
Protoclown Okay, fine. You said there are situations where IT IS NECESSARY.

My point is, there are EXCEPTIONS. ANY time you have exceptions to the rule, you're no longer looking at a situation that is "black and white".
Mar 23rd, 2003 06:47 PM
VinceZeb I never said it was acceptable. Besides rape/manipulation of someone young, dicks had to go into pussies and sperm had to be ejaculated to make a kid by everyone's free will.

I would rather it be decided by the state instead of the fed govt. I dont like it, but I do have to deal with it.
Mar 23rd, 2003 06:43 PM
ItalianStereotype ugh. abortion is NEVER acceptable, unless it is obvious that someone is going to die from the birthing process.

didnt the president sign the ban on partial birth abortions? i would hesitate to say our country "supports" abortion
Mar 23rd, 2003 06:40 PM
Protoclown So since the United States supports and allows abortion, should our country be "shot on sight" by the rest of the world? Should the evil that WE as a country support (and I know you say it should be on a state by state basis, but right now it's a federal issue) be done away with? By having us destroyed, perhaps?

You even admitted that there are certain situations where abortion is acceptable. So how can it be "evil" then, if it's wrong in some situations but okay in others? Clearly it can only be judged on a case-by-case basis then, right? So I guess it's not so "black and white" an issue after all.

My point is, almost NOTHING in the realm of morality is as black and white as it first appears, you can always find points on which large numbers of people will disagree, creating "grey areas" where any divisionary lines between the sides of good and evil can only be arbitrarily chosen at best. So by giving any ONE person or group the power to MAKE those arbitrary decisions is extremely dangerous. Can't you see that? So there again we are left with the question of how exactly we ALL AGREE on a definition of what is "evil".
Mar 23rd, 2003 06:28 PM
VinceZeb I loathe the argument of abortion, because the only side that will change is from pro-"choice" to pro-life and people are set in their ways. But since you asked me, I will respond.

Yes. Abortion is the direct and intentional killing of a human being because the parent is too inconvenienced to have the child. There are miniscule times where abortion is necessary to save the life of the mother or is a child of rape. The problem is that the pro-abortion groups (and lets just admit that is what they are, I mean, the choice is for abortion, it isn’t like they are choosing between steak, chicken and fish) are so damn enamored with their rights that they forget the babies with their brains sucked out of their heads. The media uses nice little words like "skull contents" instead of "brain matter" and fetus instead of developing child.

Abortion should be allowed to be legal/illegal by the state. Roe Vs Wade was a major liberal victor in the sense that it took the power away from the state and gave it to the govt. My libertarian side hates this sham of a court ruling and my moralistic side knows that abortion is pure evil. Especially partial-birth. Pictures of that will make you want to puke.
Mar 23rd, 2003 06:24 PM
ItalianStereotype oh god, the last thing we need is another abortion topic.
Mar 23rd, 2003 06:20 PM
Protoclown Back to the topic of morality...is abortion evil?
Mar 23rd, 2003 06:15 PM
VinceZeb I have not seen reasonable people on this board except for the conservatives and Proto does have his moments. Please, you can’t handle someone that knows the facts about the world we live in, so you just throw insults. I throw them after I answer the questions. So go on with your petty little insults and your clever little comebacks and I will go on being a well-informed intelligent person that is capable of making informed decisions based on the information I find and I am given. I also like lowering myself to the level of competition that I have. Shows their idioicy.

Sorry to inform you, bud, but we ain’t going anywhere as a species. I am saddened that I have to stalwart your evolution to the next level of mankind, but we are the same as we ever were: We still fight, we still want the same things, we do the same things we did in just different ways since it all began.

Might does make right. How was Hitler stopped? How was the U.S.S.R. stopped? How did the United States become a free nation? Last time I checked, we didn’t play patty-cake with them and smoke the peace pipe. We blew the fucker away, we built up our military to the point where they went into bankruptcy, and we used the force of the militia and leaders more wise and intelligent than anyone of us.

So if your country has to go through the horror of being invaded by a rogue army or hell for the sake of argument why not an alien invasion, you can go up to them and talk nicely. After they destroy your nation, please continue to talk nicely and hand out flowers. Me and the ones with brains will shine up our evil guns and get ready to save our own and your ass.
Mar 23rd, 2003 06:02 PM
Buffalo Tom I will do everyone a favour and summarize your post: You can't make an omelette without breaking some eggs. Egads, man! What are you doing wasting your time here, applying your skill to coming up with ways to debate with reasoned and intelligent people? You should be in a forum worthy of your intelligence; I think a show like 'Romper Room' has an audience at your level of mental development. Hmmm, compared to a simpleton like you, the toddlers on that show might seem like nuanced doctoral candidates, so perhaps you ought to stick to eating the glue that no doubt has eaten away at your brain.

I would pity you, if I thought you were a human being worth even an gram of compassion. However, you have clearly demonstrated that you are not moved by the suffering of your fellow human beings, with your callous dismissal of civilian casualties and your willingness to let other people's children die trying to achieve the foreign policy aims of a self-interested administration. If these tales of misery do not give you pause, then I suggest you renounce your membership in the human race and let the rest of us get on with evolving. It's genetic dead-weight like yourself that is impeding our development as a species.

Yes, Saddam is a menace that must be dealt with, no one can argue that. However, invading a country whose population is already suspicious of American intentions, in light of their non-support of revolts in 1991 encouraged by Bush Senior, and engaging in a conflict that could potentially de-stabilize an already volatile region by increasing the ranks of radical, anti-Western forces, is not the most pragmatic course of action. One of my issues with this entire affair is that your administration seems to think that 'might makes right', and fails to take into the account the wider implications of their actions.

If the best counter-offensive you can muster against people's arguments is to impugn their character with obsolete phrases like 'limp-wristed', then, to paraphrase your own vacuous leadership, you should lay down your intellectual arms and go home. Yield up the field to someone who is more skilled at verbal jousting.
Mar 23rd, 2003 04:59 PM
AChimp You must be talking about Svend Robinson. He's a nobody who's just looking for the attention he thinks he deserves.
Mar 23rd, 2003 04:41 PM
VinceZeb No, actually Achimp your statement was so ignorant and out of context I chose to argue and debate with someone that had serious statements.

This has nothing to do with opposition when it comes to the Canadian Parlament. This guy, and I wish I had his name and the article source, got up and chewed out everyone about not supporting the U.S. after all we have done for our nothern neightbor.

Opposition and questioning are great, and should be done. I do it all the time and I encourage it daily. But dont question and be in opposition to everything up to the point that your mind is infected with the disease of a smooth talker with shiny objects.
Mar 23rd, 2003 04:41 PM
Protoclown VinceZeb...is abortion evil?
Mar 23rd, 2003 04:37 PM
AChimp Yep. Go ahead and ignore the guy that made you look ignorant.
Mar 23rd, 2003 04:33 PM
VinceZeb Actually, good and evil in the end game are black and white. There are shades of grey that lead to it, but in the end, it is black and white.

The reality of existance is black and white. You exist, or you dont. You live or you die. you eat or you don't. You can give birth or you cant. I can input messages via computer to this message board, or I cant. Existance is black and white. Human emotion makes the shades of grey that we try to define as real.

If I decide that I should rape little 4-day old babies, most people who are not mentally deranged would say I should be shot on sight. I can sit around and rationalize and call it good because they like it, but everyone that is sane knows its sickening and stupid.
Mar 23rd, 2003 04:27 PM
Protoclown So you think that everyone in the world will agree on what "evil" is? It's that black and white, is it?
Mar 23rd, 2003 04:25 PM
VinceZeb I'm sorry, but if you need evil defined, than you have a serious problem with basic human morality.
Mar 23rd, 2003 04:20 PM
Protoclown Who decides what "evil" is? Who gets to define evil? Who makes these decisions and by what right do they make them?
Mar 23rd, 2003 04:19 PM
VinceZeb No, humanity isnt shit, but its flawed. And it takes the ones who move the world to make sure the evil that flows in it is stomped into powder. I don't look at humanity and see joy happy rubber baby buggy bumpers. I see there are two sets of people: People who want to make sure that the basic freedoms for humans are protected, and ones who could/would destroy them for their own power. If the ones who are evil are destroyed, I cry river.
Mar 23rd, 2003 04:10 PM
Protoclown So VinceZeb...basically what you're saying is that humanity is shit and there is no hope for us, right?
Mar 23rd, 2003 04:08 PM
AChimp
Quote:
When people in your own govt tell you that your country is a bunch of fucking unappreciative crybaby pussies, that is fucking pathetic.
You are the one that is fucking pathetic. You have no concept of how a parliamentary democracy works. The job of the Opposition is to attack and belittle everything that the ruling party does, no matter whether they agree with it personally or not.

If Canada went to war, the Opposition would be coming up with hundreds of reasons why we should stay put. Since we have chosen to stay put, they are instead coming up with hundreds of reasons as to why we are pussies.
Mar 23rd, 2003 04:01 PM
VinceZeb Our military campaign IS a form of superority. Do you think superiority is happy-flower power? Sorry, wrong answer. No matter if you think we came from primordial ooze or from a Supreme Being, the highest order of the land is the one who can stop someone via war and battle. Do you think the U.S. sat around and dead peaceful protests when the British was fucking the citizens over? Nope, they took action. Then they went to WAR.

W-A-R War. When people realize that battle is a part of life then they will realize the human conditon. There is no utopia we could make that could make us without war. The only way it will EVER happen is if we are enslaved and our minds altered or a Second Coming-type event. I know many are not ready to accept this, but when you do, you can finally accept the reality of living as a human being on the planet Earth.
Mar 23rd, 2003 03:12 PM
FS Congratulations Ronnie. That must be the most preposterous statement you have ever made.

Duh. We all know war is hell and causes suffering - that doesn't mean we should sit down and act like it's ordinary everyday business. The moment you stop feeling a shiver go down your spine at the sight of dead bodies on TV is the moment you might as well detach yourself from reality all together and pretend it's a happy joy joy world because your living room looks particularly peaceful.

It's sickened me how things like the MOAB and the Shock and Awe bombardment have been flaunted around and turned into icons of superiority and might.
Mar 23rd, 2003 10:50 AM
Ronnie Raygun In most cases, lack of war means suffering.
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