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| Aug 27th, 2003 11:36 AM | ||
| Vibecrewangel |
LOL Anytime....you'll have to forgive my chattyness....I tend to like to squash misconceptions when I can....bad information is often worse than no information. I used to be a very hardcore pagan. Back in highschool. I was EXACTLY the type of pagan I hate. Claiming I was Wiccan. Wearing all my spooky jewelry and happily telling everyone how witchy I was. Ended up getting a crowbar to the dome so to speak and when I got off my high horse and actually did the research I found just how wrong most of what I thought I knew was. Much of it is because the mass produced books try to put a pretty face on the older traditions. Sad sad sad. |
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| Aug 27th, 2003 11:01 AM | ||
| kellychaos |
OMG! BLASPHEMERS!!   Actually, I was mainly referring to paganism (of which I'm obviously not an authority but about which I've learned some interesting things lately) and only meant to mention Wicca as something relatively simliar in content. Evidently, I was wrong on that point an' I learned a lot o' shit in the bargain. Thanx. |
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| Aug 26th, 2003 03:43 PM | ||
| Vibecrewangel |
LMAO Don't make me smack you upside your dome with my divining rod!!! |
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| Aug 26th, 2003 03:04 PM | ||
| FS |
omg, like, you need to take a chill amethyst or something.  Keep your negative aura away from me, ok? |
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| Aug 26th, 2003 11:55 AM | ||
| Vibecrewangel |
... The celts did have knotwork early on....don't get me wrong....but what we see used today is predominantly the Christain form of knotwork. Figured I should make that a bit more clear....... "J. Romilly Allen has identified eight basic knots from which most Celtic knotwork patterns were derived. These knots appeared in repeating patterns that were used to fill borders and empty spaces in illuminated manuscripts, sculptures, and jewelry. The knots did not, generally, appear as isolated elements. Therefore, it's my opinion that the Celts did not use knots as specific symbols. They did not have different knots to represent specific ideas or concepts. Knots were just nifty ways to fill a space. The symbolism of connectedness and continuity seem apparent from simply looking at knotwork patterns. This may have been an intended effect, but I've uncovered no evidence to suggest that knotwork patterns mean anything more than that. This is likely to disappoint a great many people. Many visitors to my Web site ask if I have a list of knots and what they mean, or if I know of a knot that symbolizes a particular concept. I'm sorry, but my research indicates that the Celts who first drew knotwork patterns had no such meaning attached to their work. Now, there have been hundreds of years since knotwork patterns were first invented. It's not impossible that meanings have been attached to certain patterns over time. From what I can tell, such meanings do exist, but as far as I know, they are very localized and relatively recent in origin. " : The Origin and Meaning of Celtic Knotwork - Drew Ivan Pretty much the same as the Christian use for knots..... |
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| Aug 26th, 2003 11:47 AM | ||
| Vibecrewangel |
Wicca Actually it doesnt...... Wicca does not mean "wise one" nor does it mean or stem from "witch" It actually means "to bend" Wyche, wice, wic, wican all originally referred to plants and trees with pliant branches. It is only recently that the word has been used in conjunction with witchcraft. Wicce being the most common "witch" word steming from wicca witch meant...."to bend" It does make sense that the word came to be associated with witch later as during the rise of Christianity as anyone who practiced herbalism, shamanism.....was believed to be a witch. I may be mistaken, I'll have to to a bit of research, but many of the words such as witch and pagan came about through Christianity. Prior to that there were shamans and midwives and healers......word meanings changed quite a bit as Christianity took hold. Mind you I don't see anything wrong with this. It is the way of things. I do however take offense to people who claim to practice something but don't even bother to learn how old it is and how different it is pre and post-christianity. This is why I loath most neo-pagans. They tend to propogate information that is completly incorrect. And most never even bother to learn the truth themselves. Too happy to feel superior by wearing crystals and pentagrams without knowing that the meanings they attribute to them are quite recent. For example most of the "celtic" knotwork seen today is actually Christian. It was used to decorate the margins of religious texts. However, at some point the neo-pagans jumped on it and claimed it as their own creating meanings for each of the knots that really have no basis in anything remotely "old tradition" other than that the Celts drew some too. Most pre-Christan knotwork is tribal in origin. This does include the Celts and the Norse, however the knots had no meaning. Many of the modern Celtic meanings are derived from similar looking knots found in other tribal cultures who did have meaning for their knots. I've seen 1000's of books/sites/classes that teach that Wicca is the "Old religion" That simply isn't true. It is based on old traditions, but in and of itself is in no way even remotely old. Many wiccans including Gardenian Wiccans do parctice "witchcraft" (in other words, herbalism, spell casting, divination ) however, it is not a requirement. And that belief that Wicca is a "good" religion is the biggest load of crap ever. F'n Llewellyn books making it all fluffy for the masses. It's no wonder anyone who practices any old tradition is thought of as being full of shit. |
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| Aug 26th, 2003 10:38 AM | ||
| kellychaos |
Vibe, Aren't the roots of the word "wicca" IN witchcraft? I mean, can you really take a word which has roots thousands of years old and call it your own? Although, I agree, it's silly but there may have been people who were making up cross-culture hybrids that were "wiccan", in the old sense of the word and not necessarily Wicca (as a structured religion). I can see where confusion can easily arise. |
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| Aug 25th, 2003 01:51 PM | ||
| Vibecrewangel |
Blah Wicca was created in the 1960s by Gardner. He based the religion on many old traditions. (Religions and traditions are quite different) Wicca is a religion with a very strict set of rules....what most people call Wicca today has NOTHING to do with what Gardner built. Wicca has become a synonym for "build your own pagan religion" and it really isn't. In addition being a witch and practicing Wicca actually have NOTHING to do with each other. I hate most neo-pagans and "Wiccans" simply because they want the structure of a religion but insist on trying to build one out of traditions.....Shamanism conbined with Druidism combined with Witchcraft all using Greek and Roman gods in their rituals.....it's f'n stupid. If you want to practice traditions then practice them, but don't try to call it a religion and especially don't try to call it a religion it isn't. Like Wicca. |
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| Aug 25th, 2003 01:59 AM | ||
| BaronVonBoner | "Yea, and God said to Abraham, 'You will kill your son Isaac.' And Abraham said, 'I can't hear you, you'll have to speak into the microphone.' And God said, 'Oh, I'm sorry, is this better? Check, check, check. Jerry, pull the high end out, I'm still getting some hiss back here.'" | |
| Aug 25th, 2003 01:45 AM | ||
| Big Papa Goat | I say, I'm starting to like this 'God' fellow, he's so delightfully evil! | |
| Aug 23rd, 2003 10:30 AM | ||
| kellychaos |
These links were supposed to be attached to my last post. There, now that makes more sense ... or does it? :/ Linky One Linky Two Linky Three Linky Four |
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| Aug 22nd, 2003 02:36 PM | ||
| kahljorn |
"It has been around for about 12,000+ years" No no, Judaism has been around "12,000 plus years". What the fuck. 12,000 years? Judaism hasn't even been around that long. The earliest recorded events are in Egyptian times(isnt that where we were just discussing how Egypt was earlier then Judaism?). Moron. Shut up. You're a schmuck. At first I liked you because nobody liked you, and I like to be a rebel. But this is like joining the poland army to rebel against the states, what the fuck? There is no proof behind that statement, only "Faith". The bible doesnt even say anything about it. I have faith in Egyptian shit so I'm more right than you'll ever be ."There wasn't a country that was like ours before we founded the U.S. Does that mean our country is worse becaue it is just over 200yrs old? Could you be anymore of a pathetic pice of dog shit?" So it's only wrong to mention things that predate Christianity if it goes against your argument, you hypocritical bastard. You also might want to look into Judaism, they don't Worship the same God, and they don't believe in Christ. Your religion is called Christianity, why? It has something to do with Christ. Your religion is, at best, a crappy spin-off off it. Christianity has cut so many things out of the old testament it would make you cry. Mostly the parts where God is a vengeful hateful bastard, but that's ok because they left in other hateful parts. Christianity says God is a loving bastard. What bullshit. Your religion is nothing like Judaism. Your religion worships a God of Love, like aphrodite with less sex and not as hot. Not the Jewish God. Also, like I said, Buddhism and Hindu predates all of those, so do Egyptian type religions. And druids, and most forms of Shamanism. All your points are moot, and you don't understand that countries and religions die out because you're horribly attached. |
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| Aug 22nd, 2003 12:23 PM | ||
| kellychaos |
Quote:
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| Aug 22nd, 2003 10:24 AM | ||
| mburbank |
Now Vinth, there is a little religion the came trotting along after Christianity that worships the same God. It is called Islam. You might want to look it up. I'm sure you want to discount it as some bizarre, debased splinter of Christianity. That's kind of the way Jews think of Christians. You might view Christianity as a direct continuation of Judaism. We just think of you as the typical maladjusted middle child, religously speaking. Were did you study for the priesthood, corespondence school? Or maybe you just got a letter about becoming a preist and your roomate threw it away. Could you be more of piece of dogshit? Oh, I forgot, you is. |
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| Aug 22nd, 2003 08:40 AM | ||
| VinceZeb |
Now kahl, I know you may impress the people in your psyche classes, but rest assured that Judeo-Christian thought isn't going anywhere. It has been around for about 12,000+ years. I doubt it is going anywhere soon. As to do with America: As long as morons like you possess no control and do not exercise your right to vote, America will be around for a good long while. |
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| Aug 22nd, 2003 08:33 AM | ||
| kahljorn |
"there wasn't a country like ours" blah blah Cept like, Egypt. And um. Those other famous places. Mostly egypt. Masadonia? The country that "Almost Ruled the World". "Big fucking deal that little unimportant tribal religions were before Christanity" There was also some forms of buddhism(which is still the same size as Christianity), the whole egyptian belief, the Roman Beliefs, Greek, what the fuck ever else. Druids. Hinduism. Lots of shit. Point in case? Shit like america and Christianity has already came and went, and guess what. Before each of them there were other, "Big Important Things For People To Grasp and Suck On". Sadly they were replaced. Sadly most of them were around long before us, sadly they lasted longer than us, even in their prime. Our country will fall, so will Christianity. Shit changes. In a couple hundred years, granting our wonderful world hasnt been sploded, Christianity will be laughed at just as someone proclaiming he worships Apollo would be shunned. Shunned. You will be the shunee, so look to that day, and realize everything you believe will be shuned and laughed at, much like now. Cept it will be the whole World, and you won't be in the majority. So the final comfort you have will be removed, and you will cry, then conform to the newest thing, cause that's the kind of person you are Vince. Attached and stupid. Unrealizing of the currents. |
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| Aug 21st, 2003 09:34 PM | ||
| VinceZeb |
Kelly, there was a little religion trotting along before Christianity called Judaism... you may want to look it up. It predates Christanity, worships the same God, so I would say the judeo-christian structure began than. Big fucking deal that little unimportant tribal religions were before Christanity. There wasn't a country that was like ours before we founded the U.S. Does that mean our country is worse becaue it is just over 200yrs old? Could you be anymore of a pathetic pice of dog shit? |
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| Aug 21st, 2003 03:26 PM | ||
| AChimp |
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| Aug 21st, 2003 03:06 PM | ||
| mburbank | Now dumbass, are you admiteding that you just said again that Wicca and paganistry are the same thing when what you just said is that one is new while the other of which is made up recently which are what I said making me the not dumbass one of us? Oh, I forgot, now you are a liberal communist who think the mass murder of the masses is like going home and saying "Oh, thanks, I'll have a cold one." Now you'd believe any dumass piece of missinformation Hitler would tell you if he had of told it in a good packaging of "progressive" speaking and called himself a "Free-thinker". Oh, I forgot, I have a brain in my head that's about as good as an expired roast beef. | |
| Aug 21st, 2003 12:20 PM | ||
| kellychaos |
Quote:
ONE LINK TWO LINK RED LINK BLUE LINK |
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| Aug 21st, 2003 09:13 AM | ||
| mburbank |
See, now, that's why reading comprehension skills are so important. Here's what Kelly said: "Wicka is a prime example of that type of religion that still endures in present times." -Kelly. Endures refers back to the phrase 'that type of religion', ie. Pagan and earth based. Paganism, not Wicca, endures. Wicca is an example of that type of religion. One might equally say "Vintholocism is a prime example of that type of religion (ie. fundamentalist religous intolerance) that still endures in present times." without making any claim that your bizarre, craamped, self serving version of Catholocism predates you. |
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| Aug 21st, 2003 08:13 AM | ||
| VinceZeb | Uhhh... Kelly, how can "Wicca" still endure in present times when "Wicca" wasnt even really formed until about 100 years ago? That is like saying that the DVD player endures today, when in fact it was just created. | |
| Aug 20th, 2003 02:50 PM | ||
| kellychaos |
Quote:
It's much the same way today. Observe!! 
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| Aug 19th, 2003 09:24 PM | ||
| kahljorn | omg they hated mountain folk? | |
| Aug 19th, 2003 02:09 PM | ||
| kellychaos | Pagan originally applied to mountain dwelling people on the outskirts who hadn't converted to the monotheistic God of choice and who tended to worship Nature and the sacred female. It came to be regarded as an hillbilly insult after years of the Roman Catholic smear campaign to cast such religions into obscurity and persecute the remaining heretics (Little known fact: "heretics" root comes from the Jewish word for "choice" as in I choose not to believe in Christianity). Wicka is a prime example of that type of religion that still endures in present times. | |
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