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Nov 16th, 2005 02:27 PM
mburbank I don't think anyone said they were illegal. Just even more morally reprehensible than lots of other ways of killing people.

It's also clear evidence of the culture of lies which makes it impossible to believe anything the military says about abuses the US gets charged with.

"WP is not illegal and we didn't use it. If we did, it was strictly for lighting."

"WP is not an illegal chemical weapon. We did use it for lighting, but we're allowed to use it any way we want and allowed used it for is lighting. Because we're the good guys."

"Okay, maybe we used it a little as a weapon, which is totally legal by the way, and only a little because mostly it was used for lighting."

"Okay, we made legal use of WP as a weapon, but in a magic way that did not get on or burn up or kill any civillians, just combatants, and all are other statements were incorrect, but not lies, just wrong. And this time you can totaly trust this version of the statement and not worry that we ever used illegal chemical weapons, or used them indiscriminently. That's the truth, seriously, this time. Come on, you can trust us."


When the military lies like this, it makes wild accusations credible. Making wild accusations credible AIDS TERRORISTS!


And Vinthy... If you 'don't give a fuck' what we use on them, why did you bother to jump all over my posting the story? Why didn't you justssay 'I don't give a fuck what we use on these people. '
Nov 16th, 2005 02:05 PM
KevinTheOmnivore I have a "fuck them" attitude regarding terrorists, too. I want them dead before they can harm others.

But i think Ziggy is right-- to simply not give a fuck about what these people as a whole are thinking, to disregard everyone beyond our own shores (and some even within them), is simply asinine.

We are of course talking about Vince though.
Nov 16th, 2005 01:30 PM
GAsux I believe there is some discussion as to the illegality of WP munitions. I don't believe they are legally classified as WMD's, regardless of what effect they have. I could be wrong, but I'm almost positive according to international norms WP's are not illegal.

If they were used to specifically target civilians, clearly that's a war crime. If they were used against combatants, while not pretty, at least in my mind, I'm not convinced that constitutes a crime.
Nov 16th, 2005 01:08 PM
kahljorn Yea, I find it hilarious personally. Vince is clearly motivated by fear, he's afraid of them and what they could potentially do, which isn't in any way a bad thing. They are called, "Terrorists" though.
Nov 16th, 2005 12:57 PM
ziggytrix
Quote:
Originally Posted by VinceZeb
I couldn't give a fuck less about what other countries think of the U.S. Fuck them.
Your attitude inspires terrorism. Not YOU specifically, because you're insignificant, but policymakers who share your philosophy are the reason there are suicide bombers.
Nov 16th, 2005 12:55 PM
mburbank "In who's eyes do I give America a bad name?"
-Vinth "I'm on the Manic side of my Bi-polar disorder today" Clambake

Why, mine, Vinth. I would have thought that was entirely clear. Do you imagine you have a wider audience? No one takes more interest in you than I do. Outside of my attnetion, you are a complete non entity.

"We have to bail out ingrateful countries all the fucking time and I say let them fucking rot. "
-Vinth "Frothy Mouth" Clambake

I couldn't agree with you more. Iraq is totally 'ingrateful' and we should leave them to rot ASAP. Think of all the money and lives we've thrown away trying to liberate them.
Nov 16th, 2005 12:52 PM
Dr. Boogie That's where the white phosphorous comes in.
Nov 16th, 2005 12:48 PM
kahljorn When vince talks like that I find he actually makes sense, at least his attentions and emotions are known towards it...

Maybe America should withdrawl aid from various countries to show them how much they need us or something ;/
More than likely, though, some other country would probably jump up to help them, which could turn out quite bad.
Nov 16th, 2005 12:27 PM
Dr. Boogie So I guess the gist of your post is that Max was right, and you won't address the white phosphorous issue. You just send a bunch of diabolical one-liners like "blow me, you jackoff" Max's way.

I'd like to see your take on the military changing its statement about WP, but I doubt I'll get that from you with this post. I guess what I'm really after is a Vincezeb polemic of my own.
Nov 16th, 2005 12:19 PM
VinceZeb Yes, Max, I give America a bad name. In who's eyes do I give America a bad name? Some backwards fuck country in Europe that wouldn't exist today if we didn't help it in WWII? Some pissant country in Africa that wouldn't be able to survive if not for the aid we dole out constantly to countries that hate us?

I couldn't give a fuck less about what other countries think of the U.S. Fuck them. We have to bail out ingrateful countries all the fucking time and I say let them fucking rot. You are the kind of cry-baby leaky pussy schmuck that wants the world to love us even if it means fucking ourselves over. Blow me, you jackoff. Let the army use anything it fucking wants to kill those terrorist fucks over in Iraq and in any other country. They won't stop trying to kill us and people in other nations because you shake your fist violently and demand "withdraw dates" and "exit plans".


You have to be a troll, because you can't be this fucking stupid.
Nov 16th, 2005 11:06 AM
mburbank Vinth, Vinth, Vinth.

" In December the US government formally denied the reports, describing them as "widespread myths". "Some news accounts have claimed that US forces have used 'outlawed' phosphorus shells in Fallujah," the USinfo website said. "Phosphorus shells are not outlawed. US forces have used them very sparingly in Fallujah, for illumination purposes.

"They were fired into the air to illuminate enemy positions at night, not at enemy fighters."
-From the artlce I quoted, this was our official position in December



"An Italian documentary currently making the rounds on BitTorrent websites and the left-wing blogosphere purports to “prove” that the American military used “chemical weapons” during the battle for Fallujah. In our own backyard, Swedish blogger Ali Esbati jumps on the bandwagon, claiming that white phosphorus “bombs” (they are, in fact, flares) were illegially deployed and count as “weapons of mass destruction.” TT and Aftonbladet are now reporting the Italian claims with precious little skepticism. But as the indispensable English blogger Scott Burgess writes, none of these claims withstand the most basic scrutiny."
11/10/05, Vince's first 'source'

His second source doesn't dispute the use of White Phosphorus as a weapon, or even discuss it. It's about how the burns shown in the video probably aren't from white Phosphorus.

The third source isn't about our alleged use of White phosphorus as a weapon at all, it's on the psychology of anti-americanism, and while perhaps interesting, it hardly qualifies as 'research' on the story I'm talking about.

Now, lets look at todays news:

U.S. admits using white phosphorous as weapon

Wednesday, November 16, 2005; Posted: 7:19 a.m. EST (12:19 GMT)



WASHINGTON (AP) -- Pentagon officials acknowledged Tuesday that U.S. troops used white phosphorous as a weapon against insurgent strongholds during the battle of Falluja last November.

At the same time, they denied an Italian television news report that the spontaneously flammable material had been used against civilians.




So. The Pentagon now admits that the statement that Whote Phosphorus was used only for illumination was... incorrect. Let's be charitable and say it was a mistatement and not a lie.

"Lt. Col. Barry Venable, a Pentagon spokesman, said that while white phosphorous is used most frequently to mark targets or obscure positions, it was used at times in Falluja as an incendiary weapon against enemy combatants."

Huh. That sounds pretty uniquivecal. Used as an incendiary weapon against enemy combatants.

"The spokesman referred reporters to an article in the March-April 2005 edition of the Army's Field Artillery magazine, an official publication, in which veterans of the Falluja fight spelled out their use of white phosphorous and other weapons. The authors used the shorthand "WP" in referring to white phosphorous.

"WP proved to be an effective and versatile munition," the authors wrote. "We used it for screening missions at two breeches and, later in the fight, as a potent psychological weapon against the insurgents in trench lines and spider holes when we could not get effects on them with HE (high explosive)" munitions.

"We fired `shake and bake' missions at the insurgents, using WP to flush them out and HE to take them out."



So, back in MARCH, it was a documented fact that we used White Phosphorus as a weapon. Huhn. I geuss maybe the Penatgon, your miserable little apologist blogs and you might want to 'do a little research before posting on the web.'

You'll never respond to this, because reactionary sack of crap that you are, you'll never read it. You aren't interested in finding out the truth, you don't care when you've been lied to and my guess is you couldn't care less that we used chemical weapons on our enemies and you couldn't care less that you were wrong. I'm not anti American, I'm anti thuggish cowardly little creeps like you who give America bad name.
Nov 10th, 2005 11:55 AM
kahljorn This Jeff englewood believes the terrorists were brave? Hang that man for treason.
Nov 10th, 2005 10:49 AM
Emu Wow. Blogs.
Nov 10th, 2005 09:42 AM
VinceZeb Max Max Max. I know you are a fucking idiot, and you must seek everything out there that makes America look bad just to justify your traitor urges (becaue you are a fucking idiot), but you may want to do a little research before you go posting things on the web:

http://www.spectator.se/stambord/?p=1039

http://dailyablution.blogs.com/the_d...on_exclus.html

http://dailyablution.blogs.com/the_daily_ablution/

Now, please, go back to doing whatever it is that people pay you for and quit trying to go into the world of American-bashing, mmm'kay?
Nov 9th, 2005 10:13 AM
Baalzamon AMERICA HAS WMD'S! :O


We must disarm this imminent threat. We dont have time to wait for the warning that comes in the form of a mushroom cloud.
Nov 8th, 2005 09:05 PM
ziggytrix Dude, we do. Our government has NEVER denied it.

A more meaningful line of inquiry would be "has America recently used our WMDs?"
Nov 8th, 2005 08:53 PM
Royal Tenenbaum Someone should look into whether the Americans have WMDs...
Nov 8th, 2005 07:08 PM
ArrowX Shit! Phosphorous is nuts! My science teacher got ahold of some one year and poured it on a plant, there was nothing left when it finished.
Nov 8th, 2005 12:59 PM
Baalzamon I love the smell of napalm in the morning! :/


Truly terrible.
Nov 8th, 2005 12:46 PM
mburbank
US alleged to have used Phosphorus bombs

US Forces 'Used Chemical Weapons' during Assault on City of Fallujah
By Peter Popham
The Independent UK

Tuesday 08 November 2005

Powerful new evidence emerged yesterday that the United States dropped massive quantities of white phosphorus on the Iraqi city of Fallujah during the attack on the city in November 2004, killing insurgents and civilians with the appalling burns that are the signature of this weapon.

Ever since the assault, which went unreported by any Western journalists, rumours have swirled that the Americans used chemical weapons on the city.

On 10 November last year, the Islam Online website wrote: "US troops are reportedly using chemical weapons and poisonous gas in its large-scale offensive on the Iraqi resistance bastion of Fallujah, a grim reminder of Saddam Hussein's alleged gassing of the Kurds in 1988."

The website quoted insurgent sources as saying: "The US occupation troops are gassing resistance fighters and confronting them with internationally banned chemical weapons."

In December the US government formally denied the reports, describing them as "widespread myths". "Some news accounts have claimed that US forces have used 'outlawed' phosphorus shells in Fallujah," the USinfo website said. "Phosphorus shells are not outlawed. US forces have used them very sparingly in Fallujah, for illumination purposes.

"They were fired into the air to illuminate enemy positions at night, not at enemy fighters."

But now new information has surfaced, including hideous photographs and videos and interviews with American soldiers who took part in the Fallujah attack, which provides graphic proof that phosphorus shells were widely deployed in the city as a weapon.

In a documentary to be broadcast by RAI, the Italian state broadcaster, this morning, a former American soldier who fought at Fallujah says: "I heard the order to pay attention because they were going to use white phosphorus on Fallujah. In military jargon it's known as Willy Pete."

"Phosphorus burns bodies, in fact it melts the flesh all the way down to the bone ... I saw the burned bodies of women and children. Phosphorus explodes and forms a cloud. Anyone within a radius of 150 metres is done for."

Photographs on the website of RaiTG24, the broadcaster's 24-hours news channel, www.rainews24.it, show exactly what the former soldier means. Provided by the Studies Centre of Human Rights in Fallujah, dozens of high-quality, colour close-ups show bodies of Fallujah residents, some still in their beds, whose clothes remain largely intact but whose skin has been dissolved or caramelised or turned the consistency of leather by the shells.

A biologist in Fallujah, Mohamad Tareq, interviewed for the film, says: "A rain of fire fell on the city, the people struck by this multi-coloured substance started to burn, we found people dead with strange wounds, the bodies burned but the clothes intact."

The documentary, entitled "Fallujah: the Hidden Massacre," also provides what it claims is clinching evidence that incendiary bombs known as Mark 77, a new, improved form of napalm, was used in the attack on Fallujah, in breach of the UN Convention on Certain Conventional Weapons of 1980, which only allows its use against military targets.

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