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Mar 25th, 2003 06:16 PM
Protoclown SO DID YOU GET THE GIRL OR WHAT????
Mar 25th, 2003 05:38 PM
mburbank All I get from your epic weight loss story (and believe me, it was a SHOCKER! I never would have guessed from your constant mentioning of your fitness that you used to be a "Tubby Fat Fuck") is that your a stimulus response type guy. All you needed was the proper cheese to get you going. Now I'm glad as hell that worked for you, but to extrapolate from the fact that needing to impress a girl made you give a crap about yourslef to funding schools... well, shouldn't we be offering our students good looking partners? Is that what your getting at?

The Moral of this story. PFAH! Sheeple.
Mar 25th, 2003 05:30 PM
AChimp
Quote:
Originally Posted by VinceZeb
Taking the tax money out of failing schools, allowing parents to use the SAME TAX money that is paid to go to a different school that they CHOOSE, creates that much-needed competition!
No, it will just create really empty buildings and buildings where kids fall out of the upper floor windows because they're so packed.

You are acting as if it's the SCHOOL that makes kids smart, where it is in fact PARENTS creating a nurturing environment and encouraging children to learn that makes the difference. I have seen people as dumb as dogshit attending private schools (very motivated teachers!), and people who could be the next Einstein attending regular public schools (very unmotivated teachers! )

The school has very little to do with anything, other than providing more material to learn.

Say, isn't it good Conservatism to enforce solid family values? No, we better just send our kids to "better" schools so they "learn more."
Mar 25th, 2003 05:25 PM
AChimp *fuck my Internet connection*
Mar 25th, 2003 02:14 AM
VinceZeb We give money to these schools and build them up to be better than what the surburban kids have, even better. But ya know, that is the problem with the liberal viewpoint. I am not saying this is your own. But the viewpoint of just throwing money at something to fix it is faulty at best.

Going to dwell back into my personal life for a bit, and its a good analogy: I used to be one tubby fat fuck. 6'4" and almost 500lbs. I was up shit creek. Now, I always had access to the best exercise equipment and trainers, but I was too fucking lazy to do anything. I was never motivated.

One day, I met a girl who really liked me. I was suprised and shocked, of course. So, I decided to get into shape for her. So I went out, not able to access the best items, and i lost weight. Now, after 3 years of going at it, I am down now to about 225lbs, an approximate.

Now, the moral of the story is that you can throw money and nice computers and visual aids at students all day long. If the teachers suck and the school is unsafe and everything else is horrible, the kids wont be motivated to learn shit. Its feel good liberalism of "just doing something" instead of "getting something done" that would have eventually killed me and what is going to screw the children of the future.
Mar 25th, 2003 01:59 AM
Carnivore I made no mention of race and no mention of applying equalizers to job competition. I am talking about equal access to education. Schools in urban areas do not suck because of unions or poor cirriculua. They suck because of a weaker tax base and, consequently, poor funding. State of federal funds are needed to equalize education. Vouchers just undermine the public education system, an important part of what makes America great.
Mar 25th, 2003 01:45 AM
VinceZeb Carnivore, there should be NO equalizers in a free society when it comes to competition for jobs. All that does is pander and make people look inferior. By proxy, your statement says that blacks are dumbasses and need The Man to look after them because they cant learn for themselves. Anyone can look at the statement you made and assume that. I truly hope you don't mean it that way. Anyone that thinks like that is demeaning a whole group of people based on facial structure and skin color, and that is pretty fucking sick. Anyone that would race-patronize me would get my foot up their ass.

Vouchers for the most part cover the full cost of private school. I doubt it would be sad if schools had to compete. Competition is what the real world is about, so why should educational facilities be an exception. Dont colleges compete for students? And if the crappy schools didn't keep up to the expected standards of their customers (the tax-payers), then the schools go bye bye. Companies die off all the time if they cant fulfill needs. It happens, and shitty schools need to be buried so the kids can be free to learn at better ones that will equip them for the real world, and not the liberal pixie-dust fairy land.

If there is anything that I would think that would make decent black folk want to cause a riot, it would be when they tried to pass Ebonics off in Oakland as a language. That is the most P.C. pandering bunch of crap I ever came across. Instead of making students learn to talk proper english, they just said "Screw the standards and lets set one that is lower." I guess to them, blacks weren't smart enough to be able to speak English.

It reminds me when I used to work for a call center. One of my bosses was a well-educated black man who was the American Dream. Worked two jobs, always dressed professionally, the whole bit. His co-workers, who were mostly women from temp agencies who kept producing babies and whined about getting free food stamps (Yes, they actually talked about this). They gave him shit about wanting Bush to win, gave him crap about how he spoke, about how he didn't use slang. He just stood there and smiled. He now started up his own fashion design company online and the rest of the morons who ridiculed his blackness are still stuck in the same sucky job I left two years ago. Considering every job I have had in St. Louis before my current one I have been the extreme minority in the staff, I have been able to get a good view of what the world is like "on the other side", so to speak.
Mar 24th, 2003 04:26 PM
mburbank Meanwhile, go back to your sources and you'll find that none of the missiles fired by Iraq turn out to be SCUDS.

It's like the friggin' patriot missiles. Page one banner headline, Patriot Missiles Save World. A few months later, page 52, Patriot missiles turn out to have missed all targets.

I strongly suggest not believing ANY news from ANY source until it has time to have been verified by multiple sources.
Mar 24th, 2003 03:57 PM
Carnivore Your solution doesn't cure the disease. The crappy schools will continue to get crappier if no investment is made in them. As for vouchers, unless they cover the full cost of a private school, the poor will not be able to use them. Forcing schools to compete are like forcing inner-city, working class kids to compete against suburban, middle class kids without any equalizer. The well-off ones will come out on top.

As for curriculum, nothing pisses me off than people who don't grasp basic concepts of the English language. I'm only for "group feeling" sessions (pervert :P) in an after school setting.
Mar 22nd, 2003 08:56 PM
VinceZeb Ok, I am going to be nice for one post. Do you know what the whole voucher movement is? The voucher movement is so underprivledged children CAN go to the better schools with the same type of money that would be given to a shitty school they are FORCED to be in. Making schools compete against each other is the best idea for schools!

When companies compete against each other for customers, who benefits? Ding ding ding, the CONSUMER! Taking the tax money out of failing schools, allowing parents to use the SAME TAX money that is paid to go to a different school that they CHOOSE, creates that much-needed competition! I work at a private college, we compete against MANY schools, and it makes we the workers, the teachers... EVERYONE work harder to provide the best education for the CONSUMER, the student!

Teachers will be forced to teach reading, writing, arithmetic, instead of "group feeling" sessions and tolerance classes! That stuff may be nice, but when it comes down to what children NEED first, its the basic tools to make it in our society! You can be tolerant and open minded all you want, but if your dumbass cant read or add functions, you won't make much of yourself a vast majority of the time.

Before kids learn about multiculturalism, they need to learn mathmatics. I have seen too many good people flunk our entrance exam to the school I work for because they don't know basic information that you or I should hopefully know. And these people are seniors or just graduated from high school! Hell, I have seen college students that can't pass it. And do you know where they all go? Govt schools. The ones who go to govt schols where they care about students or private schools knock our test out of the park.


I can only sum this up by an experience I had about a year ago while waiting in the line one late night after work at a grocery store. They just started talking about school vouchers and this upper-crust white apologist woman started talking about the evil Repugs and their school vouchers. She said all schools are just as good as another. I ask her where she sent her kid. She sends him to a private Luthern school. I then told her to put her money where her mouth is and send him to a school in East St. Louis.

East st. louis is in the top 5 of worst neighboods in the country. Needless to say, the conversation ended quickly.
Mar 22nd, 2003 07:59 PM
Carnivore The town I grew up in had a very active teachers union and was considered one of the best towns for education in the state. That's the state of Massachusetts, one of the best states for education in the country. Forcing schools to compete will only result in great inequality. Who do you think is going to be attending the better schools? Obviously not the poor! Measures must be taken to ensure that all schools provide an equal, quality education. Privatizing public schools is one of the most asinine ideas I've heard ever. You are quickly surpassing the dumbassedness of Raygun.
Mar 22nd, 2003 07:50 PM
VinceZeb
Quote:
As for equal opportunity, you mean to tell me somebody attending an inner-city public school is going to get an education equal to the one I got in the public school system of a rich, upper-middle class suburb inhabited primarily by whites?
NO, THEY WONT! You are proving one of my points that everyone on this board denies! Inner city schools suck! Not because they don't get money, its because of the way the govt has given control to the unionized teachers and then they dont teach! The teachers teach the kids crappy, they dont care about the job, and the children suffer, because no one bothers to help them with their condition! If we have it so the kids could choose the public schools they went to, then schools would have to compete (like a business, as in capitalism) for kids. How would schools compete for children and parents? By providing a good education and after school activites so kids can learn that THEY CAN get out from their situations.

We keep pumping money into a leaky ship that never gets fixed! Whats the point of giving money to a school if it still sucks! Let the kids choose. Schools will improve. In the places it is done, it works. Even Joe Clark, the guy who the movie 'Lean On Me' is about, says that. Over and over.
Mar 22nd, 2003 05:52 PM
Carnivore I see the abuses of welfare all the time. I'm the one scooping them off the street after they OD. It pissed me off, yes. I don't, however, lose sight of the people who really do need help. The people who need welfare support for a little while they get back on their feet.

As for equal opportunity, you mean to tell me somebody attending an inner-city public school is going to get an education equal to the one I got in the public school system of a rich, upper-middle class suburb inhabited primarily by whites?
Mar 22nd, 2003 05:41 PM
VinceZeb Sorry, but I wasnt born well off. My family made a modest living and I work for all that I have. I was taught self-reliance, unlike most people are today. They are taught by example to rely on govt for everything. I want to help out anyone that wants to work and stand on their own two feet. If they want to be govt money banks and collect the hard earned tax dollars of me and my fellow tax payers, then I have no use for them whatsoever. I would assume if you got ALL of your money that you earned and then had to pay 5% of it to a bum who did nothing but smoke crack or shoot up all day, you would change your tune.

In America, we have about as much equal oppurunity as human society can provide. You operate under the notion that there is true "equalness", when, as it has been proven time and time again, there is not. If we were all in the caveman days, the notion of equality would be laughed upon. It's who clubs the deer and cleans the meat who gets to eat. The ones that are too lazy starve off.

I am confident, although some say I am arrogant. But I am not ignorant nor small-pictured. I SEE the big picture every day. I am a conserative/libertarian. That is the only way to see things.
Mar 22nd, 2003 12:10 PM
AChimp *waves small Canadian flag*
Mar 22nd, 2003 11:36 AM
Carnivore Egad! You were right! Communism is about equal distribution of wealth, but it has nothing to do with eliminating free speech and reeducation camps. Governments claiming to be communist have perpetrated such crimes in the past, but those were the acts of individuals, not communism.

You call a democratic socialist state the "utopia of fools" so I must assume you were born into a well-off family and have never wanted for anything in your life. Say that you have the same opportunities as a hispanic child born in the inner-city to a single parent working two jobs just to make ends meet. I'm not about equal distribution of wealth. I don't mind people earning money. I just believe that with greater wealth comes greater responsibility to ensure equal opportunity for everyone. There is nothing wrong with wealth when legitimately earned. I can't condone earning wealth through government subsidies, laying off employees and cutting benefits to maximize profits, and other less-than-honest practices. In a completely capitalist society without any government regulation of business, this would happen. As it is, the United States is not even completely capitalist. Democratic socialism does work where it exists (where the United States has allowed it to exist because American likes to overthrow socialist governments using what some might call terrorist methods).

You're quite the arrogant ignoramus. It's clear that you don't look beyond your own limited experience at the bigger picture. You must be Raygun's twin.
Mar 22nd, 2003 08:50 AM
FS
Quote:
Communism murdered 100+ million people
Egad! And I thought it was dictators.
Mar 21st, 2003 09:09 PM
VinceZeb Communism murdered 100+ million people, more than every religious war combined. Communism is based on the belief that govt gives you rights, everyone no matter how much you work or dont work that you should get all the same, and that speaking out against the govt or having unpopular thoughts or ideas should be considered a 'crime' and you should be sent to a re-education camp.

Socalism is the utopia of fools. Democracy and socalism does not work. Free men believe in captalism, which is a unequal distribution of joy. Liberalism is the equal distribution of misery.


This war has to do with many things. Iraq violated the rules of law as set by the cease fire agreement during the first Gulf War. Would we have did this before 9/11? Probably not. But now is a different time where the enemies of free nations is not contained to a state or a nationality, and whoever supports these groups should be punished. Does this have to do a bit about oil? Perhaps. I have not seen any evidence either way to support it. It wouldnt suprise me a bit if it was, but so what? We could have just invaded Kuwait or bought off saddam to get cheap black gold.

I have seen enough to justify my views and to dismiss the ones on the far-left and the far-right.
Mar 21st, 2003 08:46 PM
Carnivore Socialism is not bad. It can be successfully bred with democracy. It is not a bad word. You and Raygun need to know this. Calling someone a Commie doesn't discredit them. I feel no need to defend any of the individuals you indicted as their credentials stand on their own.

If you don't believe everything you're told, what do you think this war is about? I'll hold my response for your answer.
Mar 21st, 2003 08:27 PM
VinceZeb Ha. Most college professors, that are liberal, usually do not have a grasp of reality. If you would like many stats, figures, and reports on the idiots of the left who everyone adores like Noam (who's doctorate, in my opinion, should be withdrawn since he is completely based on junk science and little research), Zinn (a straight up Commie), and Singer (words cant describe how reprehensible this lunatic is), I would gladly do it in public.

I dont accept or believe everything the govt says. Like I said before, if you would get some reading comprehension, is that I don't agree with anything I hear or see unless a) It already agrees and confirms what I have believed or b) It has enough truth based on FACTS that I can be swayed to believe that way.
Mar 21st, 2003 03:54 PM
ItalianStereotype
Quote:
Originally Posted by glowbelly
i want to see your head explode because i bet it's filled with pretty colored confetti.
if you hit it with a bat, maybe some tasty candy yummies will fall out
Mar 21st, 2003 03:45 PM
Carnivore
Quote:
Originally Posted by VinceZeb
Must be nice to be a fucking uninformed idiot.
Why are the best educated people (most college professors) in the country overwhelmingly liberal? They must be uninformed :/

So long as there are people like you to swallow government lies and accept what is said at face value, this country will continue to decline.
Mar 21st, 2003 03:24 PM
glowbelly i want to see your head explode because i bet it's filled with pretty colored confetti.
Mar 21st, 2003 03:04 PM
ItalianStereotype forget all that terrorist, iraqi, blah blah war bullshit, i want to see your head explode because you are a foaming zealot and i dont like you.
Mar 21st, 2003 03:01 PM
ranxer
bahaha

Quote:
but I would love to see your head explode while Cheney takes the oath.
yea as said it is most of the administration.
as for heads exploding.. i just stand my ground with a sign or two and watch others get red in the face and threaten to explode my head, but if they move on me it proves my point that they don't believe in a free country.

sorry you wont see me acting rabid, as a matter of fact the anti-war people are determinded to keep things as peaceful as possible.. much more so than the bush supporters.
my biggest problem is getting passed thier propoganda of 'if your not with us you're a terrorist' they cant seem to think very well. :/

so keep screaming obsenities and wishing harm on others it shows your true colors!
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