| Apr 16th, 2004 03:22 AM |
| ArrowX |
I"m a terrorist, according to my family discussing ways to stab a president in the face makes me a terrorist.
And we should go the way of the game N.A.R.C. to win the war on drugs.
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| Apr 16th, 2004 12:49 AM |
| sspadowsky |
Well, I'm sure you're right. But let's indulge my smug cuntiness for a moment and compare it to the War on Drugs- On one hand, we have a group of shady people, loosely organized and globally distributed, using terrorism and violence to achieve their own ends, with no tangible governmental affiliation, scruples, or respect for human life. We've spent years and untold billions of dollars circumnavigating the globe chasing these bastards, and the US government has had a hand in funding and even training some of these groups. Hell, we've even put some of their leaders in power.
Am I talking about the terrorists or the drug cartels? Hmmmm....
You're right. Silly me, I guess it was a weak analogy after all. 
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| Apr 15th, 2004 11:43 PM |
| Brandon |
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You're a silly fucktard if your honest assertion is that the Clinton administration did nothing regarding terrorism.
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Clinton had a habit of avoiding decisive action after every major terror attack that occurred during his two terms, including the first WTC bombing. When he did make military strikes, they were typically ineffectual or botched, such as the infamous "aspirin factory" incident. The Sudan offered him Osama bin Laden on a silver platter at least three times, and he refused.
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Further, let's get back to the issue at hand. I would love to see a single statistic that remotely validates the assumption that overthrowing Saddam has somehow affected a positive change in global terrorism.
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Hold on a minute; the Iraq war isn't the issue in this thread.
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| Apr 15th, 2004 11:16 PM |
| GAsux |
Blah
You're a silly fucktard if your honest assertion is that the Clinton administration did nothing regarding terrorism. Further, let's get back to the issue at hand. I would love to see a single statistic that remotely validates the assumption that overthrowing Saddam has somehow affected a positive change in global terrorism.
They are not related.
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| Apr 15th, 2004 10:32 PM |
| Brandon |
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Originally Posted by sspadowsky
I was waiting for a good opportunity to explain my "War on Drugs" quip to Brandon, since it obviously went over his head. Thanks for providing it, Pern. I don't necessarily agree with it, but it does help get the point across: The "War on Terror," just like the "War on Drugs," is a complete joke and an utter failure. As David Cross said, "It's like having a War on Jealousy- you're not going to win."
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It didn't go over my head, you smug cunt, I just didn't feel the need to address it since it's the same line of garbage that's been repeated ad nauseum by the left since the "War on Terror" began.
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Now before any War Hawks jump in and rattle off statistics showing how many senior Al-Qaeda officials we've caught or killed, etc., think of that monster from Greek mythology- the one who, once its head is chopped off, sprouts seven more heads- yes, Joan Rivers.
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Of course we have to discard those statistics. Otherwise your assertion that the war has been an "utter failure" would seem less credible.
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You're never going to get them all, and our present course of action is only going to make things worse. I'm sure I could use Israel and Palestine as a solid example, but we all know that would just be pinko-commie-america-hatin'-fag talk.
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So.. what? What would your solution be, exactly? Ignore it? If you can't win permanently don't bother at all? The Clinton administration practically ignored terrorism for 8 years and we still had 9/11.
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| Apr 15th, 2004 10:07 PM |
| sspadowsky |
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Originally Posted by Perndog
I don't think most anti-Western sentiment is due to a lack of humanitarianism. Dozens of brands of Islam hate the West because of its decadence or its supposed association with Jews. Countries like North Korea hate the West because their rulers tell them to. There are some people who are genuinely pissed off because their houses were bombed. But most of them hated us before they started getting hurt because they were raised that way by anti-Western parents and anti-Western governments that are often crueler than ours. It doesn't matter how nice the US is to some of these groups. They'll still hate us and everyone like us.
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I was waiting for a good opportunity to explain my "War on Drugs" quip to Brandon, since it obviously went over his head. Thanks for providing it, Pern. I don't necessarily agree with it, but it does help get the point across: The "War on Terror," just like the "War on Drugs," is a complete joke and an utter failure. As David Cross said, "It's like having a War on Jealousy- you're not going to win."
Now before any War Hawks jump in and rattle off statistics showing how many senior Al-Qaeda officials we've caught or killed, etc., think of that monster from Greek mythology- the one who, once its head is chopped off, sprouts seven more heads- yes, Joan Rivers.
You're never going to get them all, and our present course of action is only going to make things worse. I'm sure I could use Israel and Palestine as a solid example, but we all know that would just be pinko-commie-america-hatin'-fag talk.
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| Apr 15th, 2004 09:37 PM |
| Perndog |
I don't think most anti-Western sentiment is due to a lack of humanitarianism. Dozens of brands of Islam hate the West because of its decadence or its supposed association with Jews. Countries like North Korea hate the West because their rulers tell them to. There are some people who are genuinely pissed off because their houses were bombed. But most of them hated us before they started getting hurt because they were raised that way by anti-Western parents and anti-Western governments that are often crueler than ours. It doesn't matter how nice the US is to some of these groups. They'll still hate us and everyone like us.
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| Apr 15th, 2004 09:09 PM |
| Brandon |
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Originally Posted by Buffalo Tom
It is not based on intellectual snobbery. It is simple arithmetic. There are more poor people than rich people. If western countries continue only to concentrate on 'shock and awe' military campaigns, and do not make significant efforts to build a world where social justice is more than a feel-good catchphrase, then we might as well give up trying to catch Osama Bin Laden. We'll have a whole generation who will have grown up admiring al Qaeda and others of their ilk.
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Let me guess. Socialism?
Keep in mind that the ideas I mentioned allow for working through the United Nations.
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| Apr 15th, 2004 07:38 PM |
| davinxtk |
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Originally Posted by Buffalo Tom
Countries in the West, in particular the United States, are viewed as selfish and as having agendas that look after corporate interests over human interests.
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I wonder where that came from.
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Originally Posted by Buffalo Tom
... we might as well give up trying to catch Osama Bin Laden. We'll have a whole generation who will have grown up admiring al Qaeda and others of their ilk.
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They've certainly gotten the attention of our government right quick.
I'm honestly surprised these activities (9/11 and beyond) haven't caused a sharp uprising in domestic terrorism -- currently the desert rats have the market cornered on getting our government's attention, but just wait until civil rights violations ramp up in the states (thank you, right wing) and someone realizes that blowing people up gets attention like nobody's business.
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| Apr 15th, 2004 03:23 PM |
| Buffalo Tom |
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Originally Posted by ArtificialBrandon
I'm not saying we shouldn't soften our image a bit, but the idea that anything other than attacking the "root causes" amounts to pure thuggery is based on intellectual snobbery.
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It is not based on intellectual snobbery. It is simple arithmetic. There are more poor people than rich people. If western countries continue only to concentrate on 'shock and awe' military campaigns, and do not make significant efforts to build a world where social justice is more than a feel-good catchphrase, then we might as well give up trying to catch Osama Bin Laden. We'll have a whole generation who will have grown up admiring al Qaeda and others of their ilk.
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| Apr 15th, 2004 03:09 PM |
| Brandon |
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I agree with you that law enforcement efforts need to be increased to stop terrorism. However, your proposals only treat the symptom of a more pernicious disease and that is anti-Western hatred. Countries in the West, in particular the United States, are viewed as selfish and as having agendas that look after corporate interests over human interests. I mean, can you blame the large portions of people in Iraq who are spouting anti-American slogans? The U.S. military has crapped bombs all over the country, and now the American post-invasion administrators are handing over control of most of Iraq's infrastructure to American and pro-American corporations.
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Tom, I acknowledge anti-American sentiment as a "root cause" for terrorism, but here's the problem:
"Root-causeism" is based on a conceit. Just as you can't possibly eliminate all poverty and economic inequality in order to prevent crime here, you also can't completely eliminate anti-American hatred abroad. The Arab world didn't just start hating the West in the late 20th century; it can be traced back to the fucking Crusades. I'm not saying we shouldn't soften our image, but the idea that anything other than attacking the "root causes" amounts to pure thuggery is based on intellectual snobbery.
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| Apr 15th, 2004 02:12 PM |
| Brandon |
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Originally Posted by Dole
Ummm...terrorists have been living in the UK, Spain, Germany...the spanish bombers funded themselves through drug dealing. You dont need the backing of a 'rogue state' to exist as a terrorist cell. They can live almost anywhere. I am sure there are lots in the US and UK as we speak. They can fund themselves in tons of different ways. Blowing up a few more nations wont change a thing.
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The difference is that terrorists are prosecuted in the countries you mentioned.
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| Apr 15th, 2004 12:47 PM |
| Buffalo Tom |
I agree with you that law enforcement efforts need to be increased to stop terrorism. However, your proposals only treat the symptom of a more pernicious disease and that is anti-Western hatred. Countries in the West, in particular the United States, are viewed as selfish and as having agendas that look after corporate interests over human interests. I mean, can you blame the large portions of people in Iraq who are spouting anti-American slogans? The U.S. military has crapped bombs all over the country, and now the American post-invasion administrators are handing over control of most of Iraq's infrastructure to American and pro-American corporations.
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Some recent highlights: At the end of March, building on his Order 39 of last September, Bremer passed yet another law further opening up Iraq's economy to foreign ownership, a law that Iraq's next government is prohibited from changing under the terms of the interim constitution. Bremer also announced the establishment of several independent regulators, which will drastically reduce the power of Iraqi government ministries. For instance, the Financial Times reports that "officials of the Coalition Provisional Authority said the regulator would prevent communications minister Haider al-Abadi, a thorn in the side of the coalition, from carrying out his threat to cancel licenses the coalition awarded to foreign-managed consortia to operate three mobile networks and the national broadcaster."
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When people who perceive that have had the power to decide their future taken from them by other people with a vast store of resources, what means do they have to redress their situation? The terrorists are ready to give people their answer to this question.
What is the West's answer going to be?
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| Apr 15th, 2004 12:27 PM |
| AChimp |
Now your analogy is crap. The world is hardly comprised solely of "psychotic neighbours." People who are tired of you raking your leaves onto their lawn, maybe, but hardly the kind you're trying to make it seem like.
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| Apr 15th, 2004 12:12 PM |
| Perndog |
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Originally Posted by AChimp
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Originally Posted by Perndog
Shitty analogy. In place of thief, insert "person who promised he would kill your kids as soon as he got a chance" and consider that there is no higher authority to turn to (like police) that will stop him for you.
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You're still breaking the law if you start shooting potential murderers.  |
Remember, there are no police. Only more psychotic neighbors.
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| Apr 15th, 2004 12:07 PM |
| KevinTheOmnivore |
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Originally Posted by Drew Katsikas
It doesn't matter. People here aren't tolerant of views right of Max. Everyone fucking worships him. Don't even bother.
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You are such a fucking herb. I had that to say. Thank you.
EDIT: I'd like to actually add more to this later, but as for Chalabi being excluded from the process, GAsux hit it right on the head. Chalabi, despite condemnation from the CIA, has been our "go to guy" in Irq for years now. Several actors never would've come to the table if they thought this whole process was just a smoke and mirrors show, ultimately leading to a Prime Minister Chalabi, or whatever. He just had an op/ed in today's Wallstreet Journal. His party is involved in the coalition. He is still a significant mover-and-shaker behind the scenes, me thinks.
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| Apr 15th, 2004 08:47 AM |
| AChimp |
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Originally Posted by Perndog
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Originally Posted by AChimp
Here's the best way to win the "war on terror." Stop stepping on toes and acting like you rule the world.
The entire world is NOT threatened by terrorism. It would take a helluva lot more than a few buildings blowing up to stop the world.
Pre-emptive strikes against countries are bullshit. Don't want to be attacked? Build up your defenses. You buy burglar alarms to keep your house from being broken into; you don't go out and start shooting potential thieves because they didn't hop when you said toad.
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Shitty analogy. In place of thief, insert "person who promised he would kill your kids as soon as he got a chance" and consider that there is no higher authority to turn to (like police) that will stop him for you. |
You're still breaking the law if you start shooting potential murderers.
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| Apr 15th, 2004 08:43 AM |
| kahljorn |
LOL?
Yea, everybody in the entire World needs a job to survive. Haven't you ever pulled up into a KFC and seen the Taliban working in the back? Damn right. They practice their killing slaughtering cloned chickens. Now you know the secret of funding terrorist activities, minimum wage jobs.
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| Apr 15th, 2004 04:26 AM |
| Dole |
'Now as I said in the Condi thread, terrorists need, above all things, money and places to set up campStates in the Middle East such as Iraq, Iran, Syria, and Saudi Arabia have been providing both for some time now, and we've done next to nothing to address it.'
-Ummm...terrorists have been living in the UK, Spain, Germany...the spanish bombers funded themselves through drug dealing. You dont need the backing of a 'rogue state' to exist as a terrorist cell. They can live almost anywhere. I am sure there are lots in the US and UK as we speak. They can fund themselves in tons of different ways. Blowing up a few more nations wont change a thing.
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| Apr 15th, 2004 02:32 AM |
| Ghost of Fraiser |
Brandon, your like Rudy, no matter how hard you try, you are going to die at the end of the movie.
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| Apr 15th, 2004 02:25 AM |
| Brandon |
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Originally Posted by sspadowsky
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Originally Posted by ArtificialBrandon
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Originally Posted by sspadowsky
I would just like to say that I hope we win the War on Terror as quickly, efficiently, and decisively as we won the War on Drugs.
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Thanks for the input. |
Thanks for the witty retort, Mr. Rickles. |
No problem, sweetie.
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| Apr 15th, 2004 01:05 AM |
| sspadowsky |
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Originally Posted by ArtificialBrandon
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Originally Posted by sspadowsky
I would just like to say that I hope we win the War on Terror as quickly, efficiently, and decisively as we won the War on Drugs.
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Thanks for the input. |
Thanks for the witty retort, Mr. Rickles.
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| Apr 14th, 2004 11:00 PM |
| ScruU2wice |
It's kinda like solving a rubiks cube with 54 different colors...
Is that a good analogy, i've been working on it for a while :/
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| Apr 14th, 2004 10:33 PM |
| Brandon |
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Originally Posted by sspadowsky
I would just like to say that I hope we win the War on Terror as quickly, efficiently, and decisively as we won the War on Drugs.
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Thanks for the input.
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| Apr 14th, 2004 09:30 PM |
| GAsux |
Yeah
We're about to see by just how much exactly we're winning when in the next week or so the feces hits the oscillator in Najaf and Fallujah. When the Marines move in, and I'm confident they will, the lid is going to blow off this whole silly game.
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