*snip* Double post.
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That's what Pope John Paul II said - Homosexuals are called by God to a life of celibacy.
Or something like that. |
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and no offense but enough time has been spent arguing this legalizing it delegalizing it etc. that i think finding an actual solution and investing some effort into it might be worthwhile. Expedience :( Quote:
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In i n truth, it's exclusivity may have a large part to do with their feelings on the issue. Do you want to be part of a club that lets everybody in and has no restrictions? And the value society places on it, as well; they think that it shows society holds less of a regard for it. And thus their marriage, which maybe makes them feel bad about themselves. I don't really know if marriage is necessarily about people loving each other and being together. If so, a lot of people would never marry. Maybe part of the reason why we should keep the institution of marriage as cohesive as possible is so that the less stable elements in society will still have something to come together for. Quote:
The fact is, one of the main concerns regarding this is that it is harming some people. And there are a lot of victimless or harmless things which we would consider wrong. That is not a reliable method for determining right and wrong ;/ Quote:
but yea shellfish can make you sick and pork gives you worms. Quote:
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i was totally saying hi to kahl because no offense, jeanette, but he is way prettier than you (and me for that matter) :D
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This is a good response. The only problem is that you could only bring this up if I complained that the rights aren't equal. Which I haven't done. Instead, I've been bringing up reasons why gays shouldn't be allowed to get married. Quote:
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Do you think chess clubs should let in people that don't play chess? What's the point of clubs if they are for everyone? no girls allowed ok EXCEPT regular girls Quote:
Maybe marriage has as much to do with individuals happiness as it does with societies functioning ;/ cause again marriage isn't necessary for love or happiness. Quote:
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anyway, i gave you a secular reason why we should interfere when people are doing wrong so there you have it... Quote:
and you know what from now on if you're going to respond to me when I'm talking to someone else read what they said first before-hand, because what they say is important as to how you can criticize me without being accurate. |
nevermind
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Before we continue, do you actually, seriously believe that my counterexamples of divorce and interracial marriage should be outlawed for the same reasons that you use to support your positions against gay marriage, or are you simply taking those stances just for the sake of this debate in order to neutralize my arguements against gay marriage?
Because I suspect that its the latter, and I'm frankly beginning to tire of this rhetorical dance. Most people opposed to gay marriage would not take the stances you've taken when the subjects of divorce and interracial marriage when faced with my arguements. Is this the best debating strategy that you can come up with? |
This thread is making my tummy hurt. :x
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On the whole divorce issue: Yes, I think that families should ultimately remain together and provide a healthy, nurturing environment for their children. But many times divorce would help out. What if the parents wind up not getting along at all and the children actually suffer from it? My best friend grew up like that and now lives with another relative and loves her stepmother much more than her birth mother. My point is that many times lust is mistaken for love and things don't work out the first time around. My belief is that if that happens, there's no shame in parting.
Another thing about divorce is what about abusive or bad relationships? Before women began gaining rights, they couldn't get divorces if their husbands hurt them or cheated on them. And about people marrying underage children: I might be mistaken but isn't parental consent required for someone under the age of eighteen to be married? If that's the case and an underage child is married then I'd blame the parent for the immorality of the situation. |
Interracial marriages are between a man and a woman. There's a significant difference between them and gay marriage.
many people have argued that interracial marriage did weaken the institution of marriage. And while it's not one you might hear when you are debating suzy jackass in her cozy church surrounding on your weekly ego trip, it's a perfectly good argument and is actually an answer to your question. you didn't use the divorce argument properly. Here's the context of the argument: isn't Quote:
What you should have said is that divorce points to the fact that society has already decreased the sanctity/value of marriage -- and or reduced it to a purely legal or economic institution. I'm not really sure what I'd say after that. I'd have to think about it for a while but I'm sure I could draw some distinctions and make some fun arguments. also i might take advantage of that fact to argue why marriage and the benefits should be separate. and you so took t his out of context Quote:
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but that's actually not the point I was getting at. The point is that if we allow anybody who has love and commitment to one another to marry, then we should allow many types of marriages we wouldn't normally allow: Group marriages, pedophilean, and incestual just to name a few because these person's can love each other just like gay people can. I guess focusing on group marriages and polygamy is better because it doesn't seem as ridiculous... This merely indicates that the love persons have for eachother isn't the sole reason they should be allowed to marry. Many people's arguments boiled down to something like this, or that people should have the priveledge of marriage however they want and we shouldn't interfere because it's not our business. |
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I'd also like to point out that recent studies have shown that the children of divorced parents are no more likely to have emotional problems than other children. |
i havent read anything in this thread but yay for gay marriage
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And, actually, the point was never that it devalues it for BIGOTS ONLY, but that it devalued it as an institution period and caused the divorce rate to climb. Quote:
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and learn to take a joke for fucks sake. Quote:
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I will return to this thread and give your arguements proper attention when I am no longer suffering from diarrhea brought on by the consumption of aspertame-laden Diet Red Bull. :x
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alright :O
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I think Jeanette X has a valid arguement to excuse herself from most any debate right now, including presidential. :x
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uhhhh alright :O
it's not like she's being forced to sit at the dinner table till she finishes her plate of debate |
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A. You insult mine B. Your arguments are rather preposterus C. This is I-Mockery. |
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There's lots of things that could be said about segregation of the school and the military, but the most important is probably that race is not the same as gender and education or military don't have any reason to be oriented towards a specific racial group. Quote:
from your study: Quote:
there's a lot to be said about this study, but there's at least one. Another is that it says divorce doesn't necessarily cause bad behavior, but how many problems are there beside that? and aren't we also talking about long-term effects which extend into being an adult -- and then are passed onto the future generation? His study didn't really say anything about this ;/ being born into a parentless family is way different than this. Which again, I already mentioned. Quote:
B. Then how come they aren't easily refuted. You can't just say something is preposterous because you don't agree with it. C. So what? You act like a complete dipshit and then insult my intelligence? THAT seems a little preposterous. |
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and I'm sure if I thought about it a while I could figure out why they are different. I could probably just point out that they are different institutions which serve different purposes, and that education isn't as much of an umbrella institution as marriage.. Or I could point out that there wasn't any long-term effect on school attendance (even though I'm sure there was one at some point). Or that there was still a lot of segregation. Or that black people aren't fucking white people with books. I don't know. Quote:
At least I have the gumption and intelligence to argue something I've never argued before or even read arguments about. You on the other hand argue things everybody has heard probably ten thousand times. Quote:
Nobody here would argue against gay marriage. Just like nobody here would really argue for that whole futurism thing. All y ou're doing is representing the cliche, and your arguments are so mainstream right now ;/ This thread wouldn't have gotten past page two without me arguing something I don't even really believe in. I don't have to believe in my counter-arguments for them to be relevant criticisms. and actually I did state my views (or a view anyway) on this issue a couple of times and you ignored them like a jackass because it wasn't something you could throw your stock arguments out at. I've only mentioned this in like 30 posts in this thread but apparantly you're too much of a dipshit to realize it. Go fuck yourself. If you're going to argue, argue, but fuck this crap. I'm not going to sit around and justify myself to you any further. And you're not arguing blind folded :rolleyes and don't tell me you are arguing your view, that's ridiculous ;/ Nothing you have said is new or novel. You are adopting a view just as much as I am. |
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