Once again,

It's a joint venture. Most publishers work with their developers on what the final product is going to look like.

In this case Bayonetta was developed and published together. Both Sega and Platinum games had a hand in the final product.

No. Not always. Not most.

But for a more logical argument, please give some examples so that I may give examples of games without publishers that were picked up at the last minute.

You're right, not always, but it happens, and it happened in this case which we are discussing. Sega the publishers and Platinum Games the developer worked together as what happens most of the time between publishers and developers to create a finished product.

In this case, Sega developed the PS3 Port while Platinum took control of the XBOX port.

You're right.

No ! You're right!

:bestthread

so in conclusion sega sux at making games porting other games an treating sonic with respect?

Sounds about right.

Yes, Yes, and Yes.

But.......Sega did Develop the shitty Bayonetta PS3 port AND has helped in numerous other titles they published.

SEEEEGGGAAAA

Finished Bayonetta and it goes directly to my Goty 2010-List. I wasn´t even aware that they still make games like these in this dark age of gaming. Feels like a breath of fresh air and chainsaws riding a comet from Yuggoth.

Also, I´m about 28hrs into FF13 and...what can I say...it´s still just "meh" or if you want a funny german word: Larifari. The game just offers so little and even after almost 30 hours it still feels like I´m playing the fucking tutorial. Whoever was responsible for the way the game is paced, should be crucified. In Deep-Space. Naked. By Mecha-Jesus if you want.

Honestly, the game has such a bad...how can I describe it without using "pacing" again...I´ll say "Rhythm". The dungeons are WAY too long, the fighting gets horribly tedious around the 15-Hour-Mark, all the time you just want the game to open up but noooo you read the reviews and you KNOW you have to play through 30 hours of linear A-B-Sequence-A-B-Sequence...over and over and over again.

Granted, the quality of the story DOES get better after a while, as do the characters. But really, what grown up gamer has the time and the will to sink 20+ hours in a game, just based on the assumption that it might get good later on? You don´t design games like that. You just don´t.

Look at Suikoden 5 for example. That game spent 10 hours wasting your time before it really began. Ten. Final Fantasy 13 wastes over twenty.

Do you guys remember the time when you first got out of Midgar in FF7 and you thought "finally, now the game begins for real!"? That is the point you want to get to in FF13 but the fucking game just keeps going on and on with what still feels like the fucking Prelude.

Sorry, I´m rambling, but I thought I´d share my concerns for this waste of potential. Because that´s what it feels like up till now.

So not sure if anyone remembers my escpades with a Sega CD, we recently got together with my friend and hooked up the beast. For some magical reason, it worked. My friend and I got to play some Sonic CD and Desert Bus. Pretty slick.

Always bet on Duke.

Are you playing the fully rendered JFDukes? That's the one I have on my PC as well as the fully rendered Hexen, Doom, and Heretic. It's really good.

Got an invite to the Lego Universe closed beta. I'm so pumped; the game looks really fucking sweet.

Edit: Seems pretty cool. Looks like there might be a lot of platforming involved? Game started to lag around the first major area. Like the customization, but it needs more hair. I settled on Conan O'Brien because most of the other hair was kinda lame anyways.

Thank you for saving me time on that actually. I was thinking about picking up FF13 yesterday but I just don't have the time to play for 30+ hrs and not get anywhere awesome. That's how I felt about Suikoden 5 as well. I loved it but it took forever to get going.

I am emulating Blazing Star on my DS. Technology never fails to amaze me!

Attack of The Paper Zombies, A fun, addactive game.

My pleasure. It does open up after around 30hrs (about 30mins after I posted my rant) but still....way too late for some people to still be interested at that point. There are some interesting battles on Pulse later on and some giant enemies and you get to do hunting-quests and later chocobo treasure-hunting. A lot of things are apparently supposed to be done after you finish the game, a mechanic I hate. I´m grinding to onehit the final boss, what´s the point of doing it AFTER I kill it? Ah whatever, I think I need a break from 13...might play some more Risen, that game is strangely..comfy in it´s presentation...just running around Harbortown, watching the weather, helping the Order to weed out injustice and crime and making the Don´s people my enemies...but what can I say, I want to be a mage and for that, I gotta help the order so that´s what will happen.

Finally popped L4D2 in the ole xbox last night. Every fucking game I got into though was full of fucking retards that would just run off and do their own thing and die. No one worked together for shit. >:

I plan on playing tonight.....and killing stupid people.

Dimnos, you should play with Bill, Kahljorn, and I, we are a fairly strong team and have forced many ragequits. :posh

We even almost beat the JAPOCHEATS.

THOSE FUCKING JAP HACKERS

I told my gf I'll be doing MANSTUFF tonight so I am gonna be on all night.

BATMAN STILL PLAYING BATMAN

I got L4D2 but I think it's a bit shite, although I haven't played multiplayer yet. They call the cricket bat a paddle bat, which is annoying.

Also playing Supreme Commander 2, which is worse than the original, but not as bad as I've heard.

Started up Final Fantasy XIII today. I've been real pumped ever since I got to try the demo way back last year.

They did a fantastic job localizing. Lots of subtleties in the dialog, lips have been reanimated, etc. Vanille's voice is really fucking weird, though. I mean, I guess it suits her super bubbly personality, but the choice of accent is beyond me. Everyone else is stellar, though.

Love the cast. I didn't think I'd like Sazh, but he's turning out to be pretty cool. Sometimes he's a little too "smart alec black man", but for the most part, he's alright. Even Lightning shows hints of likableness during the game's flashbacks, prior to when she cranked the emo level up to "Cloud Strife". Snow's the man, though. Total bro, totally pumped to beat the shit out of dudes and protect everyone. I like go-getter heroes. Hope's a fucking loser, though. Seriously.

Combat's pretty rad, but confusing as hell, and once you get used to it, it takes a long time for them to introduce something else. I wish they would highlight targets a little better, since spacing out area attacks is pretty important. No complaints about linearity; every jRPG is linear as fuck, this game just takes out the bullshit wandering.

So yea, really cool, bit of a slow start, but fun once you get used to juggling all the different systems.

NEW COMPUTER.
PLAYS GAMES.
GOES FAST.

40hrs into Final Fantasy 13 and by now it feels more like a FF-Game. Riding around on my Chocobo, collecting treasure, beating the shit out of Monsters while getting stronger by the minute and forging my pathetic little butterknifes into tools of global destruction...THATS what I want, not whiny self-reflection that leads to nowhere while standing around in a forest made out of wires and linear paths.

FF10 was nothing but linear paths. The whole time. And that game had Meg Ryan for a protagonist.

Actually, compared to most FF's, 13 is pretty tame in the bitchiness department too. Mostly cause Snow is always fucking psyched ad brushes off any doubt, and Sazh is always telling people they're whining more than they should be.

I'm playing Neopet Puzzle Adventure, because I was tricked into thinking it was DEVELOPED by Capcom. >_< It's actually not that bad, though. Pretty good multiplayer.

Someone´s watched Spoony´s Review, eh? :lol

Awesome as usual, that´s for sure.



Concerning the linearity of 10...10 had decent pacing, something that 13 completely lacks. Whoever wrote the story had no idea how or no intention to use proper structure in the setup and the execution of the plot...which is pretty sad since it´s not a hard thing to do and it´s even more sad because 13´s plot IS good, it´s just executed very poorly. 10 had this structure, it had the proper rhythm a story must have, at least that´s my opinion.

10 was structured really normally while having 100% linear Dungeons, Towns and tertiary places. Something EVERY Final Fantasy has. Problem is: 13 is nothing BUT dungeons, there´s nothing to break up the monotony in the first 30 hours, something 10 and every other FF since 1 have.
That´s something no one would care about in an action-game but when it happens in a JRPG (which are all pretty linear), it just gives you the feeling that something is kind of off or wrong.

Is a litte hard for me to explain in english and at this time of the night (00:47 here) but I hope you understand what I´m trying to say.

Oh and concerning the bitchiness: No one can compete with Squall on that one, we all know that :lol

Off to bed I go...

Huh? I just hate Tidus and his whiny voice, retarded clothes, gay hair, and everything else about that character.

And the whole point of FFXIII, from what I've played so far, is "oh fuck, government is gonna get us. Haul ass, you guys". I don't know any fugitive on the run who has time to play chocobo minigames or roam around doing nothing. If you look at any jRPG, they just do whatever the fuck. Aeris just died? brb snowboarding. Sin's gonna destroy everyone at any point? Water Polo!

Narratively speaking, I think FFXIII is spot on. It opens up right away with a big event and shows everyone who gets dragged into it. Then the setup with the fal'cie, then it's time to get the fuck out because it's us against the whole world. Gameplay-wise? Yea, the game could introduce mechanics sooner, but it's a nuanced system, and everything is built around the story and each situation. It's pretty thoughtfully designed around the characters and the context. I think it holds everything together a lot better than 10, which just kinda did whatever the fuck it wanted.

Oh okay, I thought you might have seen his hate-tirade about the game, that´s all. I can´t say that I liked Tidus that much but he was way less annoying as Squall, since he had a positive disposition, I like such characters like him or Zidane. There´s enough pseudo-thinky types around as it is, we need more "fuck that, let´s stick to the task at hand instead of overthinking things the whole day"-types :D

Wall-o-text again I guess...

Can´t say I see any advantage in handling things the way 13 does. It´s just tedious and boring to me. The whole thing is centered around the plot and the characters, sure. And it´s done in a more focussed way than many other JRPGs do it...but I don´t think that it´s a good idea since neither the story nor the characters are that special or unique IMO.

And then again the game goes on about that "whaaa, flee from the goverment"-thing way too long for my taste. 10 hours would have done it and they could have spared us two or three of the more useless regions like the first forest part with Light and Hope, that was totally pointless.

What the game does well though is, as you said, centering the gameplay around the characters at hand. It introduces different class-combos, sure, but again, it takes way too much time to do that.
Almost all the time in those first 30 hours before the game leaves you alone so you can finally start doing something sensefull (i.e. leveling your Characters and filling your wallet to improve your equipment), I had the impression the designers made a game for retards that needed to be taken by the hand.

I know what they were trying to do by focussing on these specific combos of characters but I (and everybody else) got it the first time, there´s no need to have these artificial slowdowns in gameplay for more than maybe 5, 10 hours max. Do they really think we need 28 hours to understand the battlesystem?

Yes, it´s very tight in terms of narration but it´s also way too restrictive in terms of gameplay (which is the more important aspect of a game to me).

10 on the other hand...let´s see if I remember it...it also had artificial stops in Character progression, just like 13 (the Spherestops they were called I think) but it never felt as forced as 13 does in the beginning.

I wouldn´t make such a fuss about it if they kept that phase of the game within reasonable limits but come on...30 hours on rails is more than enough to piss off even the most dedicated JRPG-Fan, at least one that wants to do, what JRPGs do best: Let you become the most powerful group of people on the whole planet and beat the shit out of everything.

Take the despicable Final Fantasy 8 for example. It´s story and cast was the most annoying and fucked up piece of crap in any FF-Game to date (apart from 12 maybe) but it was so much fun to play because you could just build your party from really early on. You could just say "shut the fuck up Squall, no one wants to hear your bickering, go onehit some bosses!" And he did. It was awesome.



To get back to 13:

I´m in about 46 hours now and NOW it is fun. Why? Because I can focus on building my party the way I want to, I can actively aquire Gil (not possible before you have access to chocobo-riding) to spend on my upgrading and I can watch Lightning become fucking powerful and air-juggling King-Behemoths without them getting any chance of acting. THAT´s how I like my JRPGs, not endless Render-Sequences interrupted by boring running from A to B...

I'm glad they've gotten to more sane and less shitty narratives. I was pleasantly surprised by 12 amazingly relatable and break away story. Leaving behind the traditional antagonist being sorcery, the end of the world, super beasts, ultimate evil, or unhappy thoughts, and taking on the refreshing and simple goal as preventing war was the biggest step in the right direction square made in that game of many good steps. The biggest step being a solid goal through the entire game, without a hundred plot twists and story derails that every game before it had a huge problem with. A solid consistent quest keeps the narrative grounded.
Another was making the hero as minor as he started, it was always irritating that some dumb kid somehow became the boring superhero of the game. Every other character was more important than he was, but he was the ultimate perspective, so the mission felt bigger than the hero and that made it feel more epic. In addition to every character being more important, every other character was more interesting- and just like a good book for young adults should be, the bland main character made it easier for the player to put themselves in place of them and focus on everything happening around them. At least this appeared to be their goal, despite it not being pulled off very well. But it was also in the right direction.

What I am getting at is that all my favorite parts of 12 that I thought saved the entire series and regained my interest in them appear to be passed on and improved in 13 from what I have been reading. I won't know for sure until I play it, and I probably won't play it for a while since there are a billion other games I'd rather play, but hopefully square is on its way to being a developer to care about again someday soon.

I´m really suprised to read something like this, because what you said there is the whole reason I hate 12.
It´s boring, unepic, with a totally forgettable war-story that could have been told in a minor JRPG. Using a Final Fantasy for such a bland and uninteresting story always felt like a total waste to me. Honestly, to me, even FF1´s Story is more interesting.

FF12: "There is a war coming and we have these totally unoriginal Empire-guys that fly around in warships that are named after Summons that don´t appear in this game. Only an extremely bland and boring cast of people you don´t care about can save the uninteresting world of Ivalice that was already uninteresting when we used it in 3 FF-Tactics games! Get to it!"

Me: "...no."

I don´t know how many times I tried to play 12...I always quit out of sheer boredom or because the cast annoys the hell out of me. Of course the presentation is good, I like the settings you visit, like the jail or Rabanastre itself but...they don´t do anything interesting with it. There´s no "Fantasy" to it.

I think I'm going to pick up xiii today :(

Just got done with the PC adventure game Post Mortem

Was very difficult to obtain the good ending.

Why the sad face? Despite my complaining, I think it´s a good game, considering the times we live in ;)

Quite some flaws, sure but a good game. I wouldn´t be playing it for 4-8 hours every day if it wasn´t :lol

Anyone played this Yakuza 3?

I gave up on that game as soon as I read that they cut around...what 15% of of the game - around 30 Sidemissions or something like that along with some Timepasser-activities like the hostess-bar.

We germans are used to take a lot of cut-crap in videogaming but that´s TOO much. Won´t play it, the way they took stuff out for the west.

I'm playing Castlevania Rondo Of Blood for I guess the third time (PC emulator, PSP, now Wii) and IT JUST KEEPS GETTING BETTER! ^_____^

Konami for life man, Konami for LIFE.

I still haven't played Yakuza 1 yet....>: I heard it's a more violent Shenmue.

56 hours into FF13 and almost content with my equipment and party-status.

Being able to farm the giant Adamantoises with the Death-Spell is a nice if a little tedious thing but it can net you two of the most useful items in the game, Trapezohedrons (to upgrade your weapons to ultimate-status) and Platinum ingots (to sell for 150k Gil)

Also I FINALLY beat Neochu (which is called "Küsschen" in the german version which in turn translates simply to "little kiss") for the ONE item in the game that doubles my CP after battle. Awesome.

The game really gets a lot better after Chapter 10 (or around 28 to 30 hours)...

I'm on chapter 2 and I really like it so far. The sad face was for realizing the amount of time I just locked myself into. Vanille runs ridiculously though.

IF BY "RIDICULOUSLY" YOU MEAN "RIDICULOUSLY CUTE", I AGREE.

ALSO, SNOW IS THE MAN. DUDE DOESN'T SULK ABOUT SHIT, SAVES THE DAY, AND RIDES A MOTORCYCLE MADE OF BITCHES. THEN SOME PUSSY PRETTY BOY TRIES TO KILL HIM AND HE'S ALL "HEH WHATEVER I'M GONNA BE AWESOME AND YOU CAN TRY TO KILL ME IF I'M NOT AWESOME ENOUGH FOR YA...AND I WILL BE AWESOME ENOUGH FOR YA SO PUT THAT KNIFE AWAY".

I love this game so much. Halfway through Chapter 9. Shit's getting intense. Vanille with a machine gun?! Oh fuck. Wait, no, she's switching back to the staff now. Goddammit.

I also thought her weapon was a nerf slingshot when she broke it out:
Instead its like a fishing pole combined with a dream catcher. Snow reminds me a lot of Zell which is a good thing.

I am currently playing Pokemon SoulSilver. It is really odd, because I played the first silver when I was 12. Now ten years later I'm playing through it again. Gotta love timeless appeal.

She uses it as a fishing pole near the end of chapter 9. Her and her lesbo partner reel in this giant robot bird thing. Shit's bangin'.

And Snow is way cooler than that cunt Zell. You take that back right now >:

:lol never

i finally got my gow 3 ultimate edition i'm loving it

And that was FF13. Credits after around 58hrs. Now on to more optional and more fun postgame-content. I think that was the shortest final boss in a JRPG ever...took around 2 or 3 Minutes...not even the Persona 3- Boss went down that fast :D

I've been working on my online rpg... hehe www.dragonwarriorland.com

You had me clicking those fake buttons like a complete tard.

Heh, just a placeholder for now. Only the forum is up but not linked to. The forum is also blocked off from new regs at this time. It's still in dev.

At least now you can feel happy that you made someone feel stupid without even trying. Congrats.

That's not very difficult. :(

I've recently gotten addicted to Groov. It's this fun little Indie Game, that plays much like Geometry Wars. The catch here, though, is it's MUSIC BASED. The game immediately has a pulsing beat in the background, and when you fire, it plays music to the rhythm of your gun. Different enemies make different sound effects to the music, and pretty soon, you're making all kinds of crazy-awesome techno to the beat of your enemies DYING. It gets even better once your gun starts upgrading, changing the beat of the game entirely.

BEAT BATMAN

BEATING BAD COMPANY 2

Only 4 hours into it but it seems really easy in the fact that there are save points every 20 feet and you can retry battles if you lose. I've game-overed a few times thought from lightning dieing and not blocking during the shiva battle.

Megaman music Remixes

My favs are Metal Man and Flashman. Sparkman's theme is in 3rd place.

Yeah, there´s no "Goddamnit! I just lost 2 hours of my life thanks to this boss!" You only lose...I dunno 10 Minutes MAX. The longest regular fight that I had in the game was about 8 or 9 Minutes.

If you take the time to run around in the 2nd phase of the game and you max the crystarium before you continue the story, you´re set for the rest of the game. Granted I had one of the ultimate weapons by then, that helped a bit too.

Thief 2 on Expert.

I don't think I've ever hated tile flooring as much as I did during the entire hour I spent in the Bank mission.

Got Heavy Rain over the weekend and finished it yesterday. Not a game I would buy but a damn good rent I´d say. Interesting and well written experience.

been playing a lot of master of magic. I'm not saying it needs to be remade, but there's still a lot of bugs even after the final patched version i'd love to see ironed out. online multiplayer would also be nice, i guess? and i'm gonna see how shitty this new king's bounty runs on my hard-drive-locks-up-at-random shit computer in a little bit

Wolfenstein on a gameboy emulator.. not bad.

I started up Minish cap and have been playing Beatles Rock Band.

I just got the the remastered version of Sherlock Holmes: The Awakening yesterday in the mail. I can't get enough of these adventure games.

I borrowed Metro 2033 from a friend...it´s...pretty meh, not really good, has some PC-like bugs going on, sometimes you can´t understand the people because they have such a thick russian accent, doesn´t matter if in german or in english, gotta read subtitles most of the time.

That, and the gameplay is pretty boring, just your regular shooter. Glad I didn´t buy it. Also ordered Magna Carta 2. Between that and White Knight Chronicles, Magna seems to be the better game...also the cheaper one with 17 bucks...

I really wanted to play the magna carta games.

Thanks for posting this. My next FPS was going to be Metro 2033. It looked interesting because it had the whole sci-fi angle to it but now I'll pass on it because of the boring comment and having excessive russian accents in it. I had my fill of Russian voice actors in COD5.

What does a Russian accent sound like in German? :confused:

The same, I'd imagine. :lol

You're better off getting S.T.A.L.K.E.R. Those games are hella fun.

True, russian accents always sound the same, no matter if they speak german, english or...chinese (?) you can hear the easter-european tounge in it. Same with german accents, those always sound the same too...or french accents (ugh, those are horrible, sorry my french friends, it´s true).

I woulnd´t say that Metro is totally boring, it´s just kinda bland. A rather straightforward shooter where you would really like something like Stalker. Which isn´t perfect either but at least it´s not just another shooter.

Metro is basically wasted potential as far as I can tell. My friend, who payed around 50 bucks for it, really ain´t happy with that purchase, I can tell you that.

STALKER ROCKS.

SUPER RUSSIAN.

Does it at least have a multiplayer mode?

Nope, just Singleplayer apparently around 7hrs long. Typical rent-game I´d say.

You got to be kidding. In the year 2010 they develop a game with no multiplayer..........is there a shocked emoticon that i can use somewhere?

Fuck it....I will just use this one. ---->:x

Damn, I was really looking forward to Metro. Looks like I'll just stick to the book.

Colinator: :eek

I had more fun with Metro 2033 then I did with Stalker.


I enjoyed it. :(

I welcome that actually. Multiplayer is like a fucking disease, spreading over everything. There are games that don´t need multiplayer. At all. Like Bioshock 2 or Assassins Creed 3 for example. But some crazy person in the industry came up with the idea that every goddamn game has to have multiplayer these days. Stupid and horrible in my opinion.

Multi should stay where it belongs, which means RTS-Games, Shooters and MMORPGs...yeah and Sportsgames but those are stupid anyway ;) Seriously, I hate sports-videogames, what a waste of time and imagination...

How did I get so angry again...oh yeah, multiplayer in games that don´t need multiplayer :lol

Good point,

I think that a games multiplayer mode shouldn't out weight it's single player story mode. There needs to be a balance.

and I agree, Sports games are worthless.

zelda is the best legend will ever be played... try it on

WHAT ARE YOU

I'm playing LEFT 4 DEAD DEUX. YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

This guy is great. Please give us more! :rock

still playing god of war 3 just one more trophy to the platinum

>:

Thought about buying that today, actually.

BLOOD BOWL WOOOOOOOOOOOO

I love playing the dwarves and starting the second half against a team with only three players on the field because the others are dead or to wounded to play. :lol

Have you gotten the Wing and a prayer achievement? I'm done it a few times but its not registering for some reason.

Don't think I have. These achievements are harder than the first's.

I've been able to just "get" most of them by playing but I'm lacking a few.

I would play the hell out of Blood Bowl if it was like Mutant League. :(

I loved mutant league hockey :(

I don´t know...I don´t really like Warhammer Fantasy OR A-Football, so I guess I´m not really the target-audience for a game like that.

I remember Deathrow, another Brutal-Sportsgame on the old XBOX...that was kinda funny for some hours...



A friend gave me a press-copy of Eye of Judgement Legends on PSP yesterday and...well, I somehow really like it. Never played the PS3-Version since Trading Card Games are known to be an aspect of the Infinite Chaos© (played a LOT of those when I was younger, don´t know how much money I spent on that stuff, but it was so much fun, especially Netrunner and the Shadowrun-TCG), but the PSP-Version is pretty decent as far as I can tell. No Camera-Scanning, just a regular ingame-cardshop to buy cards in with the money you make from winning (or losing) battles.

Interesting game mechanics too. Not too complex but not too simple either with quite some tactics involved and a lot of ways to build your decks, really like that.

One really stupid downside is, that you "use up" your cards when you build a deck, just as you would in real life. If you only have one "Stupid Owlknight of Dickwad-Country" and you put it in Deck A, you can´t put it in Deck B without removing it from A first. That is a little bit stupid in my opinion...but since Decks can only hold 30 cards anyway, building one is a matter of a few minutes mostly.

All in all: Kinda really entertaining...wonder what multi is like...gotta convince my friend to buy it. :D Good thing he really can´t stand UMDs anymore since he got a PSP GO...hehehe.

im not sure if i was paying the right amount of attention

I want to get to that part.

edit: :lol Oh, I totally know what you're talking about now.

SHIVAAAAAAAAA

Assassin's Creed 2. It's glorious!

I think my favorite thing to do is stab guards with the poison blade and then throw money at them while they're spazzing out so that they slice up a bunch of civilians :D

And hang from ledges and pull guards over the edge by the dick as they pass.

Also, for some reason getting behind people and running them through with the sword in gang fights is hilarious.

Cave Story is still beating my ass. It seems harder than the PC version... >_<

Boy and his Blob *hugs blob*