Goodbye Freedom of Speech
Hello New McCarthyism.
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...peaker_protest Professor Refuses Apology for 9/11 Essay 29 minutes ago U.S. National - AP DENVER - A professor who likened World Trade Center victims to a notorious Nazi refused to apologize but said his treatise was a "gut response" to the terrorist attacks. AP Photo Slideshow: School May Fire Professor for 9/11 Comment "I don't believe I owe an apology," Ward Churchill said Friday on CNN's "Paula Zahn Now" program — his first public comments since the University of Colorado began a review that could lead to his dismissal. Meanwhile, Wheaton College in Norton, Mass., and Eastern Washington University canceled plans for Churchill to speak on campus, citing public safety concerns. Stephen Jordan, president of Eastern Washington University, declined Friday to say whether specific threats had been made. Churchill defended the essay in which he compared those killed in the Sept. 11 attack to "little Eichmanns," a reference to Adolf Eichmann, who organized Nazi plans to exterminate European Jews. He said the victims were akin to U.S. military operations' collateral damage — or innocent civilians mistakenly killed by soldiers. "I don't know if the people of 9-11 specifically wanted to kill everybody that was killed," he told Zahn. "It was just worth it to them in order to do whatever it was they decided it was necessary to do that bystanders be killed. And that essentially is the same mentality, the same rubric." In an interview published Saturday in the Rocky Mountain News, Churchill added, "This was a gut response opinion speech written in about four hours. It's not completely reasoned and thought through." Churchill said his speech had been misinterpreted. "I never called for the deaths of millions of Americans," he said. Early editions of the Sunday Denver Post reported Churchill gave another magazine interview in which he was asked about the effectiveness of protests of U.S. policies and the Iraq (news - web sites) war, and responded: "One of the things I've suggested is that it may be that more 9/11s are necessary." The interview prompted Gov. Bill Owens to renew his call for Churchill's firing. "It's amazing that the more we look at Ward Churchill, the more outrageous, treasonous statements we hear from Churchill," Owens said. The furor over Churchill's essay erupted last month after he was invited to speak at Hamilton College in Clinton, N.Y. The speech was later canceled. Churchill, who recently resigned as chairman of the ethnic studies department but remains a tenured professor, said he would sue if he were dismissed. |
you're such a drama whore.
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dah
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How is his freedom of speech being violated exactly? There's nothing in the Constitution that says private citizens can't get pissed at you if you say something asinine.
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*cough* arresting protesters *cough*
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I'll let you know when the two are even remotely similar.
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Wait I still don't understand how he's making out the victims of the 911 attacks as Villians.
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UC-Boulder has the right to hire and/or fire whomever they like, too.
If I had a faculty member who was making my institution look bad, I'd probably think about canning him. He had his speech, but he may not have a job. That's fair, especially when you're job is premised on the quality and content of a) what you teach and b) the ideas you choose to publish. He chose....poorly. |
As an educator, he is a representative of the institution. You've claimed W should be forced to step down as a poor representative of the USA (his place of employment), yet, you jump to this putz's defense.
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UC-Boulder is a state institution, so the governor has some right to comment on the matter. And it's not the like the governor is the only person complaining about this guy. He published something incredibly stupid. He continues to say things that are incredibly stupid. He has apparently refused to apologize for the comment, a simple, cursory gesture, even though he himself admits that "This was a gut response opinion speech written in about four hours. It's not completely reasoned and thought through."
There's no executive power allowing the governor to fire this guy. It's not exactly like the governor can do a whole lot if the guy doesn't get fired. |
While I agree with Churchill's basic premise that we should fully expect terrorist acts to be attempted against us due to our foreign policy in the Middle East, I think he went over the top. While some people are indeed guilty of perpetuating corporate plundering and pillaging in Third World countries, it's totally unfair and unreasonable to include the guy sweeping the floor at the WTC among the "Little Eichmanns." I haven't read a lot of Chomsky, but I doubt even he would go that far.
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As an educator, he's not a poor representative of the institution. His abilities as an educator aren't even what's being called into question here. His dismissal is being demanded by the Governor, and I'm sure the people at UCB aren't taking that lightly. This entire thing smacks of McCarthy-era behavior. As for your W analogy, I don't believe he should be forced to step down as a poor representative of the USA. I believed that when he was elected in '00. Four years later, I don't think he's a poor representative of the USA, I know that he's a bumbling fuckwit with an arguably sinister motive and imperialistic penis envy. Quote:
While his job is based on the content of what he teaches, he certainly should be teaching about the cultural significance of things like 9/11 -- all aspects of it. My main point is, he's an educated (and already outspoken) person expressing an idea contrary to the "what a tragedy!" and "evil a-rab!" noise. Because of this, he's feeling a backlash from not the school, but from the state. I wonder how long it'll be before his name is on a list. |
he's feeling a backlash from the state because what he said was inappropriate and offensive. a man in his position should learn to accept a little pressure when he goes out of his way to create controversy. there will be no list, this sort of thing has happened many times in the past, and you're a drama whore.
and imperialism is awesome. |
you can step on my face. slander my name all over the place. but hey say honey lay offa my shoes dont you step on my blue suede shoes.
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How is he making an educated opinion. He's saying something on gut instinct and just trying to justify and being stubborn about it. I don't possibly how he can make himself sound intellegent when he's essentially saying that people who got murdered are responsible for the death penalty a jury passes.
plus, isn't boulder one of the most conservative towns in the nation, that's just like throwing a match on a pile of tires. You're not really planning on accompalishing much. |
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BTW, Scru, Boulder is a very liberal college town. Quote:
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Yeah, I think you're wrong.
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OK, how many of you folks chirping in that this guy "said something stupid" have actually READ his essay?
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Trust me; nothing was taken out of context in this uproar. You can read a copy for yourself here. |
Well, I didn't trust you, and I gave it a quick skim, and I have to say I agree with a lot of what I read.
For those not inclined to read the whole thing, here's an excerpt with the particularly offensive bits in bold: Quote:
You would do well to pick up "Perpetual War for Perpetual Peace" or "Dreaming War" by Gore Vidal, and give that a read. Our "tactical strikes" generate collateral damage. We blow up wedding parties. Shit happens. We aren't perfect. You need to realize that our country has done some seriously sick shit and that the terrorists aren't against us because they "hate our freedom." They hate us bombing their countries and playing Illuminati with their politics. The more we pretend that muslims (and especially the ones who are terrorists, whichever ones they might be) are just evil incarnate, the closer we get to a new era of McCarthyism. I'm certainly not saying the actions of terrorists are just, nor did I see the essay state such, so if you would care to quote what statements of his were asinine, we can have some meaningful discussion. But if you want to label any sort of discussion of the motivation of these desperate enemies as "asinine" "outrageous" or as Gov. Owens said "treasonous," then all I have to say is "fuck off," cuz your idea of discussion is just waiting for your turn to scream at your opponent anyway. :) |
Also, I should concede that the essay's statements are outrageous. It is outrageous, in this society, to look to ourselves when something bad happens, and ask "what did I do to cause this?"
No, in this society, we ask "who did this, so I can sue them?" And since we can't sue dead terrorists we look for live targets, cuz if we can't get justice, we can at least get revenge, right? >: |
Self righteous asshole. And the guy who wrote this is a dick too.
Some fucking accountant feeding his family, a janitor making ends meet, and firefighter dedicating his life to rescuing others deserved that shit? OK, fine, we'll go by his logic. He is making money and participating in the government that runs and finances the military. We all buy products and pay taxes into it. And this internet thing you are using......courtesy of the DoD. I guess we've all got it coming. |
Well, Blanco beat me to it.
Honestly, zigs, it was clever how you tried to morph my criticism of the most extreme leftist viewpoint (Chomsky didn't even go that far) into some kind of "America is never wrong" mentality. Do I even need to tell you why the paper-pushers, rescue workers, and firefighters who died on 9/11 were innocent victims? Go fuck yourself. |
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