Does your paycheck specify how much municipal tax goes towards roads that are walked on by bums and junkies who don't pay taxes?

Or how much of your taxes go towards free primary and secondary education for people who have children when you probably don't?

Does it specify how much was spent on police that were sent to protect an individual getting beat up who may have been a bum or junkie?

I don't understand how you can pick one government service, that should be available, (and is available, in every developed country except for yours), and ask for specifics, when you probably don't care about the ones that already are.

I mean, seriously, a bum, walking on the same roads that a taxpaying citizen uses. The nerve.


Furthermore, do any of you have any health care stories to share? Being fucked over by the system? Etc?

I don't think a government-run plan would run 100%, but worst case scenario, people would have mediocre health care instead of no health care.

Also, anyone who thinks government health care would drive private insurers out of business ought to check and make sure that UPS and FedEx went out of business when the postal system came into being.

The biggest problem is that the republicans throw in so much hate-propaganda that it's hard to maintain a pertinent debate.

A prime example being the Stephen Hawking affair:
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/arc..._08/019457.php

Basically an American newspaper editorial claimed that if Hawking had lived in the UK, he wouldn't be alive today (because the NHS doesn't bother to keep ill elderly alive there).

The had failed to realize that Hawking is a British resident, he has been treated by the NHS throughout his life and he is in fact alive.

Well, to be fair, Politicians aren't known for honesty. To be honest, its the level of the misinformation that's insulting.

30 years ago, Reagan took the time to explain to everyone his plan for supply side economics, and why he thought it was the bee's knees. Technically, he was giving misinformation, because he didn't mention all the other things that would (and did) come with it, such as capital flight, and huge rollbacks of private sector regulation.

But at least he talked to the public like they had a brain, and were capable of critical thinking.

Now all they do is hop on TV and come up with a stupid phrase, like DEATH PANELS and that's good enough. They know you're not even going to think about it, and the (lack of) effort they put in clearly shows it.

The difference between a roads education and the police is that all those services I actually use. I drive on those roads too. When I was a kid I attended school. Now that I have kids of my own they go to school. And the police are there for everyone (for better or worse, thats a different matter all together). I never said universal health care was a bad thing. All I want to know is how much of my money the government is going to be taking out of my pocket. Or in other words... What is the bottom line? Is that really such a jerk thing to ask?

Actually I do care about the ones we already have but again thats a different matter all together. Im only talking about universal health care because that is the topic at hand. In a thread that you started if Im correct. So if anyone singled it out its you.

It's going to go the way any new program goes: start off and be fixed and tweaked as time goes by. Just like the Constitution. I might be wrong, but I don't think any program like this would be made, tossed out, and left as is forever.

When you asked the question like this, you weren't exactly asking what the bottom line was, so much as you were subtly inferring that people who will be getting the health care are people you feel don't deserve it.

And there isn't really a difference, unless you are saying that you wouldn't use the public option. Your for-profit insurance provider has covered every medical condition you have, and will continue to do so?

That's good for you man, because an ever increasing majority of people in your country are not in the same boat. Or arc, I guess, is more appropriate.

If you've never gotten a letter in the mail saying that you are denied coverage because the insurance company feels that your condition was pre-existing, or that the treatment is considered to "experimental" and you will owe the hospital $50,000, then you are pretty lucky.

I never have either, but that's because I was blessed enough to have been born in Canada, and I would not think twice about the fraction of a penny that goes towards helping other Canadians get adequate health care.

To be honest, the fact that Americans are willing to hold other Americans financially responsible for something like getting sick honestly makes ME sick.

Are you sayiong he doesn't need to know this info and should just fucking shut up?

Hey Command Prompt, maybe if you got a job and stopped mooching off of other people then you wouldn't need hardworking people to pay their hard earned money just so you could get your fix. Fucking hippy.

I'd actually prefer he defend himself as intelligently as possible,

but shutting the fuck up is also a fairly reasonable alternative to asking banal, loaded questions.

A job? You mean like being an associate sociology professor at university? I'll look into it.

This is what people who have any sort of education call a question.

This is what anyone on these boards, aside from you apparently, would call a joke.

So your universal health care in Canada only costs you a "fraction of a penny"? Really? Thats all? I find that hard to believe. Im not saying it has to cost a ton every week, but it has to cost more than a "fraction of a penny".

Again I have never said I wouldnt go for it. I just want to know how much it is going to cost and if I will be forced to put into it if I have my own insurance. These are perfectly acceptable questions.

OMG! How dare we hold you responsible for yourself! Its a crime against humanity to expect you to get a job and provide for yourself! As far as those who just cant be expected to...

Hey T do you have a job? Do your medical bill get paid? Who pays for them?

I agree that lifestyle is an important factor in many conditions, however genetics and other random factors still play a large role in determining the quality of life for many people. Everyone actually.

Holding people personally responsible for random variations in the gene pool is like saying the weather personally makes conscious decisions.

Essentially, the only way you can justify this line of thinking is by giving sway to some kind of hard determinism, in which certain people are created to be "better" than others, and everyone else just has to "deal with it."

I am going on 39 and my government (THE GREAT U.S. of FUCKING A.) is providing me with free health care and a small amount of money to see me through via U.S. Social Security.

I remember when my wife got sick, it's to bad I couldn't rush her into the hospital and get her taken care of and have medi-cal take care of the bill because we were to poor to pay it. Oh wait... they did!

But I thought we were heartless bastards who didnt care for anyone who couldnt take care of themselves?! Oh wait... Its only the dick lickers who are perfectly able to provide for themselves but chose to abuse the system that we dont like.

I guess this would be statement from an uninformed blow hard. I suppose you study up a little more before passing judgment professor.

When I was a bum in San Fransisco, I couldn't go into any thing like a free health clinic to get medical attention for the smallest of injuries or coughs, OH WAIT! I DID!

I HAVE OPINIONS ON THINGS OUTSIDE MY KNOWLEDGE!

But since I do know a thing or two about it, Dimnos, I think who it would benefit the most is people who do have private health care and have a previous condition that the private health care system won't support. You guys would be able to actually get what you are paying for this time and have the best of both worlds. As much as I like making Canadians fustrated, the truth is that your kid will have a better chance to grow up healthy in an increasingly poisoned atmosphere.

No one knows what is going to happen to them illnesswise. I thought my back problems were just normal back problems. If I had access to health care back then I would have been able to have the problem slowed down to where I could be working for another 10 - 20 years and paying taxes. But back then it was all, have some aspirin and exercise cause everyone has back pain and we aren't gonna do xrays for free I don't feel anything wrong man up you pussy.

Right. It could be a great thing. I just want to know how much it will cost and what difference there is between it and the insurance I already have? Will it cover more or less than what I have? If I like my insurance better do I have to buy into it? A little more info is all I need, but Im open to the idea.

All very reasonable questions that I don't think are answered yet. But then again, I haven't read the bill.

The thing I see the most is that people with private health care get an illness and the insurance will do everything possible to not cover you for it. Under the plan (I am assuming) you are covered for everything.

No, I mean a real job.

Sociology. :lol

At university

So if the government already provides healthcare via medical and other programs which likely receive government incentives what is the difference if it is just standardized into one program? Obviously, money is already coming out of sweet dimnos pocket to pay for tadao's wife's sickness, so financially, how much of a difference is it going to make?
The only difference it should make is that more people will be receiving it, who either didn't know about the program or were ineligible since these programs often have weird rules.

Also, if everybody has healthcare, more problems like tadao's can be prevented which will keep people off of social security and other programs which take money out of your pocket. As it is people who are fat and useless get more health and financial care than other persons; it's almost an incentive to become useless.
Personally I think if the government tried to enforce more healthy living on people that are sucking off of its teet we'd be a lot better... like incentives for eatting and living healthy. Same with food stamps.
but that might be too unamerican :(