What are people's thoughts on
 

Making people, immigrants, speak English in the Southern States of the USA rather than than Spanish, which seems to be taking over according to some people?

I've seen a few news snippets that suggest some local politicians are supporting the idea that Spanish be made secondary to English... somehow.

I think it would be prudent for anyone coming to America to learn English. And if someone can't, they're going to miss out on opportunities, and rightfully so. It would also be prudent for southerners to learn Spanish, as well.

But it's more than just the southern states, it's all over and reaching up into Canada.

Living in Virginia and southern Maryland was crazy, seeing all the fruit and veggie stands along the roads. All of which were staffed by brown people whom could only speak a few words of English.

I don't really have an opinion, either way, actually. But if someone wants something from me, then the onus is on them for making themselves understandable to me.

You need to learn it. If you want to live here and be an American then you need to speak the language. I wouldnt move to Germany without having learned a good bit of German. That would just be stupid.

The famous "Jim's Steaks" in South Philly made news recently by making it a requirement that in ordering your meal that you must order in ENGLISH.

(I think it was "Jim's" - it may have been "Pat's")

EDIT (sorry 'bout that, chief): I am more inclined to agree with the majority; there should not be a "requirement" to learn English per se, but it would be greatly beneficial to anyone who does.

Of course.


And this is interesting because I seem to hear a lot of the complaining being done is in regards to business, either examples like this, or where Spanish speaking advertising is taking over.

I'm interested in this whole idea, because it's globalisation now actually available in the USA. People seem to think that you can just ban speaking Spanish or something ridiculous like that, and it will all go away, or that you can tell a company to advertise in English and expect them not to lose out on a huge Spanish speaking market. The reasonably free market will always lean towards the profitability of it all, rather than sensibilities. It wont be long before coca cola start producing Spanish version bottles for the US.

Stupid for the person migrating. You learn the language to fit in, right? To be able to live properly in society. But what about when you don't need the language to survive? What about when you are a Pole moving right across the border to 'Little Poland' or something, where everyone speaks Polish, all the shops are Polish run, and Polish is the second most spoken language in the country, and always increasing.

Jawohl, little man in the red and yellow car.

Then there isnt much you can really do about it. :\ Like you said, you really cant expect businesses to only advertise in English and miss out on the Spanish speaking market. Banning the language right out is a ridiculous idea as well. IF you are actually going to take action and want to pas some sort of law, the only sensible one is that you require a basic understanding of the native language. Then again this would only be forced on the legal immigrants. In the case of the Spanish speaking immigrants in the south most are here illegally.

All in all I really dont give a fuck what language you speak. As long as your here legally.

Well I hear they are cracking down on illegals now, so that fixes that.


An ex in New York tells me that all her workmates in a small dog grooming place are illegal immigrants. :\

Cracking down? How? I havnt seen this cracking down.

I don't think they will ban spanish in the usa because we still don't have an official language. Personally I feel they should have ratified the amendment making english the official language though.

Na. It would be unamerican to ban a language right out.

[blabber]I feel like they would come out with something where you can opt to speak spanish for for a price. Then have the price be too much for people of that language to speak it. Then there would have to be private companies the offer to translate for you the languages between two individuals....[/blabber]

I have to call spanish translators at work quite regularly and from what I've heard they get paid like $10 a minute.

I don't understand why people are upset that English may become a requirement to drive a vehicle in Alabama. Last time I checked, we don't offer street signs in any other language. It's rude to think that you can come to another country and expect them to learn your language anyway. BTW I am bilingual.

That's kind of what I was thinking.

We'll all be speaking Mandarin or Japanese sooner or later. :bow

So there is a huge population boom of Spanish speaking peoples in a certain fictional town I am making up, after a decade or so the scales of Spanish speakers (those that speak Spanish at home) compared to English speakers are tipped in the Spaniards favour. As a result, more and more Spanish speaking businesses pop up as time goes on, more and more money is being made in the Spanish speaking market as opposed to the English speaking one. There is more support in the form of money towards the Spanish speaking community. Spanish speaking people who are legally American citizens run for... is it called parliament over there? Well they run for that. Local government type shindigs.

The high percentage of Spanish speaking voters get them elected mayor or whatever of hypotheticalville, and one of their first acts is to add Spanish to all road signs in the town because as it stands it takes that extra fraction of a second for most drivers to translate things and that could lead to accidents. For the safety of legal American citizen drivers, the signs are changed to Spanish. Also this town could be YOUR TOWN.

Some sort of 'bill' in Arizona making it easier for honest American police officers to target suspected illegal immigrants if they look suspiciously like they are illegal. I was only joking that they were cracking down though.

I am alright with that situation. Government by consent of the governed and shit like that are what America was supposedly built on. There are plenty of towns in the southwest and up into Cali that have already done the same. I'm a big fan of majoritarianism, (with a couple provisions to keep the little guy happy, of course.)

Personally, this smacks of white supremacy, this keeping America "pure" nonsense, though it's not just limited to those nutters.

At any rate, it doesn't matter to me. We're all gonna be brown and speaking Mandarin in few centuries, anyway.

That's cool. I didn't expect anyone to really WANT to ban Spanish or anything like that, it's sort of just played out like that in the papers. Small news snippets with barely any information other than "LOL look what these Americans are up to today :rolleyes "

Well, I mean, we're a minority being all rational and shit.

I guess most think it's overrated.

I think its weird that the US is such a big place and manages to speak one launguage predominantly anyway.

We can barely manage it here, and England is barely state sized.

HEY! THAT is my town! :lol But its cool. Them Mexicans know how to eat. :yum

Oh yeah I think I heard about this. Its something like "If you look really Mexican you better carry around your papers showing your legal or we will deport you"

I don't think the US has ever recognized any language as the state's "official" language so whatever floats your boat, I say. There's always charades.

I guess I don't understand why it seems to be so damn hard for people to know more than one language. On the Continent it's a given. You can understand and do way more if you at least have one Romance language under your belt, and not live in utter paranoia of linguistic collusion.

probably the most negative affect i've noticed from the influx of spanish speaking individuals is that many jobs require you to be bilingual even though they aren't dealing necessarily with the spanish speaking populace, and they don't pay more. It used to be that being bilingual could get you a nicer job/ more money, but now its a requirement for some of even the most basic jobs that barely pay minimum wage :(

I don't want to force anyone to do anything. If italian, spanish, mexican, german, or any other nationalities wish to speak in their native dialect then that's fine. I think they'll find out real fast that if you don't speak the proper language then it will be very difficult for them to participate in society.

I think the main issue is checking if they are in the country legally and if not we can always send them packing and they can speak their native language as much as they want in there country of origin, and send their government the bill for the plane ride.

AMERICA!

Speaking of which,

I wonder how Arizona is fairing after they past that immigration law. Which I may add is just a copy and paste of the federal law that's been on the books for decades.

:lol

I thought it was ridiculous they passed it on Cinco De Mayo.

You serious?

They were really twisting the knife with that gesture. Kind of like making alcohol illegal on St. Patti's day.

:lol

When I was traveling with the family in France about a decade ago I tried like the Dickens to speak and think entirely in French - which was difficult considering I only mastered the equivalent of High School level 3. Anyhoo, I was actually understood, and got a few good-natured language lessons on the way. It seemed that the people were actually pleasant and friendly (maybe because I was obviously making a serious effort to speak their native language). (I was actually complimented on my accent once. Imagine that!)

As the vacation wore on it became easier to think en Français, right up until I almost ran over an elderly woman on my way into a rest stop. I immediately said Excusez-moi, madame to which she responded Je vous en pris - and I couldn't for the life of me figure out if she just said "no worries mate" or "fuck you and the horse you rode in on". It was then I realized I would really like to go back home and speak "Amurikin" again.

I guess if you are forced to interact with a variety of people where the language is unfamiliar, eventually you will develop a natural facility. But that's just my opinion.

Indeed. And if not you, then at least your children, if you have any.

:lol Well, at least the issue with this spanish thing is that its starting to change society in many places. Like where i live, there's billboards and shit everywhere in spanish and lots of business that cater specifically to spanish people. They aren't really a minority here, and I don't think that they have any difficulties participating in (their) society.

BUT THEY DON'T SPEAK THE PROPER LANGUAGE

Yes, I remember they tried that sort of thing in NE Philly, in a predominantly Korean neighborhood, hanging street signs with dual linguistics. That lasted about a week. :\

City of brotherly lo... YO! YOU SPEAK ENGLISH!

We have to dive a little bit deeper into this. It's not just that some stuffy old Americans are getting upset because they're having trouble communicating with their gardener or drive-up teller at the local fast food joint. It's that certain cultures and ethnicities have been given incentives to seperate themselves from American culture.

So instead of it being a melting pot it turns into a quiilt where everyone is seperated into these little boxes and can be pushed with ease into conflicts with one another. I remember one time I went to a spanish bar in my neighborhood with a guy that was fluent in spanish.

When we walked in everyone looked at us like we had 3 heads but after the culture shock wore off we all had a good time.

After I left I asked myself why there was this hidden underground of people that drink at spanish bars, eat at spanish restaurants, and shop at spanish grocery stores. Well, the reason for this is that many of these people are illegal aliens....that's a no brainer....but the more pressing issue is that like the immigrants of old they are huddled into these little communities. The issue that differs from immigrants in the past is that its getting harder and harder for these underground communities to assimilate into the American way of life. There are many ethnocentric groups (privately funded by foundations and big business) that preach race war. Preach division. Preach victim ideology.

If you look at the paper trail La Raza, one of the most incediary Latino Ethnocentric groups, gets most of its money from Wall-Mart. We have to realize that this is social engineering. Controlling the minds of these defenseless immigrants and turning them on the American people.

I don't know if you are being serious or just kidding around Dimnos.

To be honest, it doesn't really matter if he's serious or not. His posts are mostly pictures, over sized text that repeat, or a random comment so he can feel part of the conversation.

Are you hoping to tag team with me against Dimnos? It's not going to happen.

Our names and the phrase "tag team" should never be used in the same sentence. Please remember this.

That is one of those pictures that is worth 1,000 words. Those are the kind of Mexicans that come to American illegally and expect to just be entitled to things when they "put in" to begin with. I love how his sign says they will continue to kill cops until they get what they want. YES! Because murder is the proper way to go about things. :rolleyes

I watched a video of an illegal being interviewed. She was saying how most people who have a problem with illegals say that they dont pay taxes and she argued that she did every time she goes to the store. She didnt even understand that people are talking about federal taxes but wanted to argue the subject. :lol

That's what these people are being taught, the real question is who is teaching them this entitlement ideology?

I say the enthnocentric privately funded groups but you be the judge.

Yeah, but you blame everything on privately funded groups.

Well,

Who is funding the ethnocentric group called La Raza that teaching race based revolution?

Morons.

People who pay federal taxes.

A good chunk of illegals don't bother learning english because they don't intend on sticking around forever. Once they've earned enough money to build a house back home or whatever they plan on going back to Mexico. They're only working in America because the Mexican economy is so fucking awful.

I'm pretty much cool with spanish speaking in America. The only thing that gets me is what Khaljorn was talking about. The bilingual job requirement is a real kick in the dick, but it's the smug bilingualists that really make me mad. Someday though I'll also be a smug bilingualist and then I'm really gonna stick it to you stupid monolingual fags.

Wait, are you making a pass at me? :confused:

Right in the butt. Nothing is worse than getting fagged in the ass.

So how did you "put in" when you were born into these entitlements?

I pay for my own health insurance. I got a legal job and pay my taxes. I bought my own house. I donate blood regularly even if only to shut them up and make them quit calling me. Oh and I dont approve the killing government employees to try and prove some half baked notion of entitlement.

In an hour and 1/2 Los Angeles decides if they boycott Arizona.

GIVE SANCTIONS MORE TIME

Where will I get my Arizona Ice Tea? :(

Im sure there will be tea runners in Nevada. :(

Here is something amusing.

"Arizona's export shipments of merchandise in 2009 totaled $14.0 billion.
The state's largest market was Mexico. Arizona posted exports of $4.5 billion to Mexico, close to one-third (32 percent) of the state's total export shipments in 2009."

http://www.trade.gov/td/industry/ote...s/arizona.html

Ya, I know,

The place where I "work" sells a boat load of industrial products to Mexico. See, all the manufacturing is done over there, hence why we are all out of work over here and that shit we sell them is made from China and guess what.....all the profit goes to the Board Members and CEO's of the corporation while the American people push papers and except lower and lower salaries.

So....what's your point?

:sleep

Chinese parts made in Mexico? :confused:

Ya,

they aren't made here. All the US economy is now a days is the middle man for production based manufacturing. We import chinese made tools and sell them to Mexico's factories.

Hence why we are all outta jobs here. Service based economies don't work.

We do still export a decent amount of raw material... To China... Who then sells it back to us as product... Shit.

Oh so the parts themselves are manufactured in China then shipped through you to Mexico where its assembled?

You mouth-breathing, moronic boob.

"La Raza" does not neccessarily mean "The Race", it can mean "the People", which it does in that context. Hispanic/Latino ISN'T A FUCKING RACE. THERE ARE WHITE HISPANICS, BLACK HISPANICS, AND BROWN HISPANICS. ITS A CULTURAL IDENTITY, NOT AN ETHNIC ONE!

La Raza is a civil rights group for Hispanic people. Yes, a civil rights group. I know that must upset you that they would DARE to get together to defend themselves against racism, but you'll just have to live with it.

Many Mexicans are white, of Spanish lineage. When they came over from Europe, they weren't as good at genociding the natives as America.

That's right, the immigrants are mindless and defenseless and are manipulated by forces that only you, in your position of privilege, can possibly hope to understand.

"First, as a sovereign nation, the United States has the right to determine who comes and who stays. . . [It also] has a right to consider enforcement at a variety of levels, including border enforcement, interior enforcement, and workplace enforcement. . . We support enforcement...[because] as Americans, we recognize it's the right thing to do." - NCLR CEO Janet Murguía From: http://www.nclr.org/files/42528_file...Y2005FINAL.pdf

I know some cars are built that way. A lot of the parts for those are made in the US, though.

Mexico....then back up to the US. 1st world workers can't compete with slave / sweated labor who recieve less then a dollar an hour compared to high end US Union wages of 25-35 dollars an hour with benefits and pension plan.

Yes,

That's exactly what I've been saying. It's an incediary divisive ideology which preaches a victim ideology. Many of these "Cultural Leaders" reinforce the idea that there are these boogeymen after every Hispanic and Latino. There aren't. There are however very weathy people who wish to use them as slave labor (to break the middle class).

I still believe its race based though. That's the only place we differ.

There is no racism against them. Many people are just angry because illegal aliens (OF ALL RACES, most of which are Chinese) are bankrupting hospitals, social safety nets, and schools around the country while lowering the standards of legal citizens....naturalized or otherwise.

kind of interesting that you need a union to have a middle class (your quote, right?) but unions are part of what makes globalization appealing...

Well .... yes and no. I work for a vertically integrated packaging company that buys raws from all over the world to manufacture the packaging right here in SEPA. The packaging is used to pack products sold in major grocery and specialty stores throughout the country and the world

I fully admit that we are small potatoes - however, there are thousands of companies just like ours serving manufacturing needs in niche markets throughout the private sector.

The reason you don't hear more about this is that many of these companies are so small they are privately held - as are we. As such they don't register on the "DOW" or "S&P" indices.

The job market isn't great but it isn't horrible either. You just need to know where to look.

YEAH...JUST LIKE HOW IN MY CO-ED VOLLEYBALL LEAGUE IF WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH GIRLS ON OUR TEAM WE CAN STILL PLAY BUT WE AUTOMATICALLY GET AN OUT EACH INNING. HOW IS THAT SUPPOSED TO BE EQUALITY? THEY'RE BASICALLY ASSUMING THAT THEY ARE GOING TO GET AN OUT ON THEIR OWN.

:lol

That's good but like you said its small potatoes in the country. The manufacturing base has been thoroughly devastated. One reason why the economy has fallen into this endless abyss. Jobs like yours are one of the only reasons why the US economy is still functioning.

Its amazing to see how greed can literally destroy a whole civilization.

Hello Mr. Negative Nelly,

What makes globalization appealing is bought and payed for politicians who can pass laws to destroy Unions and Privately owned businesses. Not Labor Organizations. It's basic in the sense that if you allow and give incentives to corporations to off shore their entire operation to save money on labor then they will do it. It's not because Labor Organizations ask for a living wage, it's because the system has been put in place to actually by pass 1st world workers....Union or Non-Union alike.

^^^ No.

Small potatoes multiplied by thousands upon thousands is a significant fraction of this country's GDP. It probably doesn't equal one EXXON/MOBIL, but then again, their profits dwarf all but about 20 countries in the world.

Our "cottage industries" provide jobs, goods and services, and drive the economy from the ground, not the other way around. We can't afford not to do more with less, and the "less" comes in the form of running an agile, or lean organization, not from cutting wages or jobs. We're as big as we've ever been, and we're hiring more individuals.

I'm only speaking from one company's perspective, but I can assure you the movement is pervasive across industrial boundaries and organizational frameworks.

So, with all due respect, you are not speaking from a position of knowledge here. I am.

I think he just means that American industry has been devastated compared to what it was, not that it's still not a sizable force. Of of course it is Coolie so I don't know. :x

What kind of incentives to governments give to corporations to go offshore?

Like TheLeader said,

I'm not saying that these small time manufacturers aren't there and making a difference. As said in my previous post, it's one of the reasons why the US economy is still crawling along. That doesn't change the fact that since Free Trade / Globalization has taken hold our manufacturing base has gone from 50% of the countries economy to less than 20%.

This has shown in the dwindling pay, jobs, benefits, and incentives for people to start their own businesses.

20% is a significant fraction of the economy but as manufacturing lowers so do the standard of living of the population.

And our oil fields need to be government run. Allow those superprofits to go to the people instead of going to the CEO and Board of a directors of a cartel.

I can't speak for your business. What I can do is acknowledge the reality of the economic situation that has been in a downward spiral since the 1960's.

The US citizens standard of living has been cut by 2/3 since then and continues to drop as long as big business is at the wheel of the ship. Your business is in the crosshairs of multinational corporations and every day of the depression that goes by more people loose their homes, businesses, and jobs.

I hope you are correct, problem is that laws and taxes are created in a way to stamp out wealth from private individuals and to place a negative incentives on starting a business, ,manufacturing or otherwise.


If you were speaking from a position of knowledge, we would be agreeing....which we kind of are but you still have the rose tinted glasses on. Take them off and see the rubble field around you.

Exactly, Watson!

The games a foot!

Should say:

Tax breaks, for one thing.

I think the labor is a LOT cheaper too.

But that's not an incentive from government. >:

DON'T YOU SASS ME. >:

YOU'RE NOT MY REAL DAD

I guess we can say its an incentive by proxy.

AND I NEVER WILL BE WITH THAT ATTITUDE.

Maybe so, but most of these jobs were from industries (paper, automobiles, steel) which were poorly run for decades. Fat dumb and happy were the executives, right before they all jumped ship with their golden parachutes. Chainsaw Al Dunlap comes to mind.

And I think that our CEO would take issue with you calling our sales figures small potatoes. We're not on the scale of a Proctor or 3M, but we do very well, thank you very much. >:

I'm not an economist, nor did I stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night. However, I would think the current job market gives one plenty of incentive to start their own business.

The standard of living in the USA is not what it once was, but I would hardly call it "low" by any stretch. I'd reserve that right for countries like India or Brazil.

Say what? Now you're saying you want the GOVERNMENT to run the oil industry? You trust the government to do the right thing? Ummmm.....

You're right, you can't speak for our business. (We agree!) However, the economy has cycled more than once or twice since the 1960's. Both downward and upward. Unless you have some macroeconomic background of which I am unaware, I'm extremely skeptical of your "doom and gloom" take on things. It's just not that cut-and-dried, my friend.

In a phrase, "bring it on". That's essentially our corporate philosophy. We can compete with anyone from overseas, even with our labor base being domestic.

No they're not. You need to understand the tax laws and how they can be read to favor small business and industry. In my view, the playing field has been leveled somewhat, and we've come ready to play.

I only see the rubble of your ill-conceived arguments. :\

And before you provide me with an onslaught of links from newsworthy op-ed pieces, blogs and youtube videos, remember that I could do the same thing from the same links that support my point. It all depends on how you construct your google search parameters.

I lived through gas-rationing, 21% inflation and government cheese. The early 70's were the worst economic time-period in my memory. Compared to that, we're climbing out of a minor pothole on the highway of life.

Fucking emo poser wanna be punk political fag cry babies, always getting in the way of my generations progress.

^^^ WØRD.

Yo.

BTW, My 40th is in September on the 17th, Flagg is the only one invited.

>:

A system hasn't really been "put into place."

also if we didn't have unions /other standards which drive wages up and profits down than those companies wouldn't have benefited so much from moving to another country; many companies went basically bankrupt before they moved to mexico or other third world countries.

What you mean is its just an incentive in theworld because that's just the way things are. I hate how you can turn something so simple as, "PEOPLE IN OTHER COUNTRIES HAVE A LOWER STANDARD OF LIVING" to, "THE GOVERNMENT IS IN A CONSPIRACY to give inceNTIVeS TO CORPORATIONS BY ..." BY FUCKING WHAT? TRAVELING BACK IN TIME AND SABOtOGING COUNTRIES SO THAT THEY WILL HAVe cheAP LABOR AVAILABLE? WHAT THE FUCK.

WHILE YOURE At It WHY DONt YOU BLAME THE GOVERNMENT FOR PUTTING MOSt of tHe WORlDS oil AND ReSources in the sAME SPOTS CReATING AN "INCentive' foR RICh tYpes TO gO to thoSe PLACEs AND SET UP BUSINess AND HAVe conflictS OF INtEreSt WIth the locALS. DASTARDLY. OR BLAME tHEM FOR HAVing AN ATMOSPhjere tHAT CAN BE AffectEd by our ACTIONS. YOU KNOW, ANYTHING THAT THEY HAVE NO CONTROL OVER BUT COULD TAKE ADVANTAge OF.

Well technically globalization has been around fora longtime and all of those things didn't happen. At first it even benefited us. Anyway, what's your point? That there should be standards so that industries can't move their company to another country? What if they had these choices: Move to another country or Go bankrupt.

I guess what I'm saying is that unions and other american standards give corporations an "Incentive" to move to other countries.

Again, what is your political stance? more government? less government? perfect government according to coolie w/ infinite money and god mode?

:lol:lol:lol

I read everything and didn't skim. There's much better points that you made throughout. I only have time to LOL because work is busy today.

and you say that their goal is to DeStROY MIDDLE CLASSEs. But isn't it interesting that SOME of these companies that move to other countries increase the middle class of that country?

Are you referring to La Raza?
You naive idiot. How can you be so mind-boggling stupid as to believe that Latinos aren't being hassled in this country due to race?

If you support the law, and I take it that you do, what exactly do you think that "reasonable suspicion" for stopping somebody and demanding to see their papers is? Do you really think that the cops won't use this as an excuse to hassle every brown person they see? That other minorities (such as the Chinese) won't be unfairly targeted?

Sure there aren't. I'm sure you're in an excellent position to know what its like to be Latino in this country. I'm sure that you know far better than the cultural leaders and the people who listen to them about the issues facing Latinos today.

Hell, why don't we make you a cultural leader, since you know so much?

What about me, you old fuck?

NO, I PLAN ON DRINKING METAMUCIL AND WATCHING MATLOCK, YOUNG PEOPLE NEED NOT APPLY.

man I love Matlock i'm in.

Me too, there was an episode where someone tried to kill him by blowing a boat up. Shit was raw.

I was just reminiscing with my GF the other day about Carters gas crisis and how Reagan may or may not have kept Americans hostage until he won the election.