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-   -   Rachel Corrie (http://i-mockery.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2733)

Abcdxxxx Apr 20th, 2003 11:59 PM

Rachel Corrie
 
Just wondering if you all are aware of the various discrepencies, and scams involving her death... seems the pro-palestinian movement has taken it upon themselves to use her image for propaganda purposes.... but the circumstances around her tragic death are pretty cloudy.... and the photographs making the rounds are incredibly fake. Anyone want more details?

theapportioner Apr 21st, 2003 12:12 AM

No need to ask us, since you are already so eager to do so.

Abcdxxxx Apr 21st, 2003 12:59 AM

No, I'd much rather hear that it was common knowledge so I wouldn't have to bother....but I know a lot of bright people who don't bother using their brains at all.... and you actually have to say "look at these two pictures, do they look like the same bulldozer to you?".

theapportioner Apr 21st, 2003 01:08 AM

Well, I for one am not terribly interested in poster-people or idol worshipping of any sort (other than a few bands or movie directors) -- barely was aware of the hype, or the controversy surrounding Rachel.

KevinTheOmnivore Apr 21st, 2003 01:13 AM

All I know is that a bright, good spirited young woman died a tragic death. Have you come to inform us that she deserved this, or that it was perhaps truly an Arab conspiracy...?

Protoclown Apr 21st, 2003 01:25 AM

Time for me to display my ignorance, since I don't feel like researching it at this hour. Who is Rachel Corrie and what happened to her?

Vibecrewangel Apr 21st, 2003 01:41 AM

LOL
 
Must be a red head thing Proto......I don't know either.

KevinTheOmnivore Apr 21st, 2003 01:44 AM

Rachel Corrie was an activist in the Middle East. She was killed roughly a month or two ago when a Caterpillar bulldozer ran over her, crushing her skull.

Any expansion upon that information has pretty much become politicized, depending on your slant.

Vibecrewangel Apr 21st, 2003 01:48 AM

Sad
 
No matter what your slant that is just sad.[/b]

KevinTheOmnivore Apr 21st, 2003 02:02 AM

I have seen some argue that she died "supporting terrorism," and the fact that she was pictured burning an American flag also makes her background "suspect." Of course, anyone who would burn an American flag (a piece of paper with it drawn on it), GASP, while Palestinian children look on, MUST be a vile human being!

I can't say whether or not this girl was intentionally killed or not. I can't imagine any human being with even part of a soul doing such a thing. I don't blame the Israeli government for her death, but I find the tactics used by some to demonize her (thus justifying her brutal death) a bit tasteless and appaling.

Abcdxxxx Apr 21st, 2003 02:44 AM

Kevin - are you really that moronic? what you call "demonization" is the reaction to disprove those that hold her up as a hero...and why isn't she a hero?

Rachel Corrie was taking part in an act of civil disobediance, and was somehow killed by a bulldozer. The tragedy of her death is now being exploited, and while NOTHING takes away from the gravity of this incident there are things that should be known because they change the picture entirely. The house she was "protecting" was empty. It was being used for smuggling guns, and drugs to Egypt, and involved a prostituion ring on what is known as the Philladelphi route http://www.idf.il/newsite/english/0211-3.stm. The Rafah area is the most dangerous neighborhood in the West Bank and Gaza. She was acting as a human shield for a terrorist operation under the guise of a peace keeping mission.

The International Solidarity Movement are the same group that gathered around Arafat while under seige, and also held up negotiations to get the wanted terrorists out of the Church of Nativity. 11 days after the Corrie death, the IDF captured a wanted terrorist, Islamic Jihad's Shadi Sukia known for recruiting children to be suicide bombers, at the ISM office. Their function seems to be aiding and acting as human shields for militants, NOT Palestinian civilians.

Where are the human shields riding on buses protecting Israeli civilians? Where's the campaign in memory of the 14 year old baptist girl from the u.s. who was killed the same week from a suicide bomb?

Finally, there are huge inconsistancies in eyewitness acounts and a disinformation campaign surrounding fake photographs distributed by the ISM through Reuters (who sent the photos out with their credit for some reason) and various websites . http://www.palsolidarity.org/index.php?page=rachel.htm
The text on this page was changed when people caught on that these photos depicted two different bulldozers. The original story ran that these photos were from the crime scene, as a before and after.

There is also the issue of where she died. Some say the hospital. Some say on the scene. There were x-rays taken, and one normally doesn't x-ray a corpse. She died tragically in the hospital from accidental wounds after playing a game of protestor chicken. Her death was not an honorable one, and it wasn't for an honorable cause...yet there are those that want to make her a martyr.

KevinTheOmnivore Apr 21st, 2003 03:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abcdxxxx
The house she was "protecting" was empty. It was being used for smuggling guns, and drugs to Egypt, and involved a prostituion ring on what is known as the Philladelphi route http://www.idf.il/newsite/english/0211-3.stm. The Rafah area is the most dangerous neighborhood in the West Bank and Gaza. She was acting as a human shield for a terrorist operation under the guise of a peace keeping mission.

Your link is dead, but on that note, can anyone other than the IDF verify this? Forgive me if I don't take the word of the suspect without question....

Of course she was in a dangerous part of the region, that's why she was there. Human shields who didn't want to be put in dangerous places in Iraq were chastized for showing cowardice. Corrie put her body where her mouth was, and she paid the price for it.

Quote:

The International Solidarity Movement are the same group that gathered around Arafat while under seige,
You mean the action that was condemned throughout the world, including by President Bush...?

Quote:

and also held up negotiations to get the wanted terrorists out of the Church of Nativity.
Were they definitely terrorists? This seemed to be in question, with the priests inside even denying this.


Quote:

11 days after the Corrie death, the IDF captured a wanted terrorist, Islamic Jihad's Shadi Sukia known for recruiting children to be suicide bombers, at the ISM office. Their function seems to be aiding and acting as human shields for militants, NOT Palestinian civilians.
Yes, and they denied knowing this. Sure, you'll dismiss them and assume they are liars. But before you do that out of opinion on the issue, you should actually talk to and meet the people who participate in this organization. I know several, and they are good, moral, honest people, young and old. They don't support terrorism, nor do they support being pawns. Any exploitation against them is due, if anything, to ignorance. But before you assume that they are a front group for terror and "revolution," you should take the time to realize that these are human beings. They don't hate the Jews, they aren't Hamas, they don't want to push anybody into the Sea. Could they be taken advantage of? Of course. But in an area where a man is one bulldozed homeaway from becoming a terrorist himself, how do you differentiate...?

Quote:

re the human shields riding on buses protecting Israeli civilians? Where's the campaign in memory of the 14 year old baptist girl from the u.s. who was killed the same week from a suicide bomb?
Has the U.S. opened an investigation on her case? That's something they neglected to do for Ms. Corrie.

On the bus issue-- The terrorism enacted against innocent Israeli citizens is unjust and horrid. However, the circumstances are different. The Israeli buses unfortunately have to have an IDF soldier on every bus. This is unfortunate, because the Israelis are accustomed to a free, democratic society where such conditions are not acceptable.

In places like the West Bank, sanction and curfew are apart of every day life. Simply walking outside your house, a simple routine, can result in walking into a crossfire. Soldiers ride buses in Israel because terrorism is unacceptable. ISM activists volunteer to walk with Palestinians, because not only is violence common, it's expected all the time.

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s also the issue of where she died. Some say the hospital. Some say on the scene. There were x-rays taken, and one normally doesn't x-ray a corpse.
One does however x-ray a corpse I would think when the accusation of a crime has been made. Not only would it have served the ISM, it would serve the case of the IDF to likewise have her corpse x-rayed.

Quote:

died tragiically in the hospital from accidental wounds after playing a game of protestor chicken. Her death was not an honorable one, and it wasn't for an honorable cause...yet there are those that want to make her a martyr.
Not honorable to you because the ISM is a terrorist front group. Not a martyr to you because you disagree with her cause. Thus the politicization I mentioned upon comes into play.

I already said I can't say one way or another. Maybe this is a tragic case of wrong place, wrong time. Either way, there has been a clear attempt to smear her as a violent supporter of terrorism. Anyone who knew her, or read about her life, would know this to be untrue.

Abcdxxxx Apr 21st, 2003 03:59 AM

No Kevin, I care about the image that has been created for her upon her death...the one of a human shield poster child. HER DEATH *WAS* POLITICAL!!!!! Ask your friends what's honorable about the discrepencies in the photographs on their website? What's honorable about lying and forgeries? What's honorable about having your friends publish the photos of your cracked open head on a website? Maybe it's honorable if you believe she went there to die, or ready to die...but for what cause? Peace? Are you teaching peace when you lead young school children into a symbolic burning of the American and Israeli flag? it's her right, but it's not a gesture of coexistance. She was quoted as saying what a beautiful thing it was to sucide bomb. You've done a piss poor job of defending these people. Their version of peace is discriminatory!

You're wrong. The White House has already pledged they will follow up with an investigation, and Israel has already started one of their own. (and yes Israel has punished soldiers that acted out in the past). Has there been a single investigation on the Americans that have died at the hands of suicide bombs? Nope. Jewish life is apparently cheap. Has there ever been a conclusive investigation for the US diplomat killed at the hands of Arafat, who the ISM acted as human shields to defend ??

Also - when you speak of the priests inside the Church of Nativity you're talking about different fueding factions who all have their own political agendas. The ISM were described as drinking and defacing the church. They wouldn't leave even after negotiations were settled. They were acting as human shield not to accused terrorists, but to CONVICTED terrorists that were supposed to be in Palestinian jails under PA jurisdiction...but instead they were out organizing more acts of violence. These were the terrorists that were extradited, while the rest went free.

It's false to call them a peace group. They support "militants" and acts of violence on civilians... they support and shield those who hold the Palestinian society hostage. If they don't realize this they should get the fuck out of there. A pawn IS a pawn. Who cares how naive they are. "Ooops who knew that guy in our office was teaching children to blow themselves up? We want peace, we swear". It's bullshit.

The truth is most pro-Israel supporters are horribly saddened by this event. And all the while, the ISM continues to encourage misguided young people from around the world, like Rachel Corrie, to spend time in the Middle East providing cover for terrorists.
Bring on the inquiry.

(I might be wrong but I thought you do an autopsy on a corpse not an x-ray)

Abcdxxxx Apr 21st, 2003 04:30 AM

http://www.idf.il/newsite/english/0211-3.stm

This predates the Corrie incident by nearly a month. The tunnels in Rafah have been widely reported. Palestinian Rafah and Egyptian Rafah are seperated by a fence, and there are around twenty tunnels that seperate them. 50% of the total daily shooting attacks and roadside bombs come from Rafah, and it's rarely reported by the press at all because it's simply just a warzone ... not many civilians populate this area...and whatever civilians have populated the area are held hostage living within an operation to smuggle various illegal items to and from the Muslim Brotherhood. The fighting in this area isn't so much because of any "Free palestine" movement... but out of desperation to keep the tunnels open so they can get paid.

VinceZeb Apr 21st, 2003 09:03 AM

Abcd is making kevin *Gasph* actually have to answer questions instead of trying to look intelligent! This ought to be fun to watch.

Protoclown Apr 21st, 2003 01:46 PM

Shall I assume that you're bringing an economy sized bag of Cheetos to the event?

ranxer Apr 21st, 2003 02:10 PM

http://dc.indymedia.org/front.php3?article_id=56078

after blowing up those images it looks like the shovel color difference could be from lighting.. i suspect those lights on top raise and lower with the bucket.. if these are the case its just angle and timing that make the bulldozer pictures look fake..

Maybe Rachel didnt know who the hell lived in those homes but that they were illegally being dozed over so was there with others out of principal.

i say use the event to show the issues as much as possible.. dont let her death be in vain

KevinTheOmnivore Apr 21st, 2003 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abcdxxxx
No Kevin, I care about the image that has been created for her upon her death...the one of a human shield poster child. HER DEATH *WAS* POLITICAL!!!!! Ask your friends what's honorable about the discrepencies in the photographs on their website? What's honorable about lying and forgeries? What's honorable about having your friends publish the photos of your cracked open head on a website?

The exploitative actions have NOTHING to do with the tragedy of her death. I didn't say I have ANY problems with the IDF making a cae for themselves in their own defense, what I DO oppose is the attempt by SOME to demonize her character in order to justify her horrible death.

Speaking of that, what is wrong with publishing photos of her corpse? Do people wishing to show the gravity and horror of terrorism in Israel not show images of victimes from Palestinian bombings?? Are these "dishonorable" actions, or an attempt to make people SEE the horror involved in these actions....?

Quote:

Maybe it's honorable if you believe she went there to die, or ready to die...but for what cause? Peace? Are you teaching peace when you lead young school children into a symbolic burning of the American and Israeli flag? it's her right, but it's not a gesture of coexistance.
This was an action she did on her own, as her RIGHT. This however was not her JOB. Her job entailed paper work, coordinating meals, keeping records, etc. etc.

This girl went over there to help a struggling people. Whether or not you agree with her political perspective on the matter is your choice, I probably wouldn't agree with her completely, either. The fact of the matter is however that she went over there in the name of peace. She went over there to help. She did NOT go over there to support militants.


Quote:

She was quoted as saying what a beautiful thing it was to sucide bomb.
Where? By the slander squads behind the IDF who would like to justify any brutal act as long as it's done by the "right" people, namely the IDF...? WHERE and WHEN did she say this? WHO cited this?

Quote:

You're wrong. The White House has already pledged they will follow up with an investigation, and Israel has already started one of their own. (and yes Israel has punished soldiers that acted out in the past). Has there been a single investigation on the Americans that have died at the hands of suicide bombs? Nope. Jewish life is apparently cheap. Has there ever been a conclusive investigation for the US diplomat killed at the hands of Arafat, who the ISM acted as human shields to defend ??
There's much the U.S. has stood back and chosen inaction on. How about all of the UN resolutions Israel is supposed to be in violation of??? (NOTE: I already know your predictable next statement, but before you question the validity of some of these obviously stupid resolutions against Israel, keep in mind that there are at least SOME that even the U.S. support, Israeli actions that the U.S. condemns yet refuse to act upon. The surrounding of Arafat's compound being one of them).

When did the U.S. open an investigation? Who is conducting it? The IDF were seemingly cleared immediately of any wrong doing. Who conducted that investigation, the IDF!!?

Quote:

Also - when you speak of the priests inside the Church of Nativity you're talking about different fueding factions who all have their own political agendas. The ISM were described as drinking and defacing the church. They wouldn't leave even after negotiations were settled.
Who accused the ISM of this? It's funny, the condemnation of these people often seems to come from people who are ultimately their political rivals. What a shock! Were the priests with their "agenda" on Christmas Eve just "lobbying" for power within the strong PA hierarchy?? I'll bet. Why didn't they complain then about the ISM?? During the stand off, the IDF claimed that the priests were being held at gun point. What was the follow up on the validity of this claim...?

Quote:

. They were acting as human shield not to accused terrorists, but to CONVICTED terrorists that were supposed to be in Palestinian jails under PA jurisdiction...but instead they were out organizing more acts of violence. These were the terrorists that were extradited, while the rest went free
ANYONE can seek refuge in a Church. I don't condone terrorists walking free, however I'd need to know more about who was in the church, and you must forgive me if I don't trust the claims made often by the IDF. Did the PA admit these men were convicted, since you claim it was their jurisdiction....?

Quote:

It's false to call them a peace group. They support "militants" and acts of violence on civilians... they support and shield those who hold the Palestinian society hostage. If they don't realize this they should get the fuck out of there. A pawn IS a pawn. Who cares how naive they are. "Ooops who knew that guy in our office was teaching children to blow themselves up? We want peace, we swear". It's bullshit.
So says you. Many others feel that they are helping an occupied people, and I tend to subscribe more to that story, rather than the clearly slanted story that everyone they assist is in fact a wanted terrorist by the IDF.

Quote:

The truth is most pro-Israel supporters are horribly saddened by this event. And all the while, the ISM continues to encourage misguided young people from around the world, like Rachel Corrie, to spend time in the Middle East providing cover for terrorists.
Bring on the inquiry.
Right, lesson learned. The IDF taught a lesson that should be appreciated, right ABC?? Don't you dare come to help all of these filthy "terrorists," because that's ehat they clearly ALL are, right?

Quote:

(I might be wrong but I thought you do an autopsy on a corpse not an x-ray)
If you want to have recored, printed evidence of the nature of her skull fracture, I think you would x-ray regardless.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vince Zeb
Abcd is making kevin *Gasph* actually have to answer questions instead of trying to look intelligent! This ought to be fun to watch.

Run along now and let the adults talk, Vince. Go update your porno site, or something....

Abcdxxxx Apr 21st, 2003 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ranxer
http://dc.indymedia.org/front.php3?article_id=56078after blowing up those images it looks like the shovel color difference could be from lighting.. i suspect those lights on top raise and lower with the bucket.. if these are the case its just angle and timing that make the bulldozer pictures look fake..

Holy shit you're dense. Why would the lights on top raise and lower six inches? Even the ISM have revised their handout to read "This was one of two bulldozers participating in the home demolition operation on the day Rachel was killed." These photos were originally represented as being of the same bulldozer at the same time of day. Why? two different bulldozers, at two different times of day in front of TWO different horizons. Additionally, the shot showing her after the injury, the 3rd photo has much more daylight than the 2nd photo which is supposed to be BEFORE the 3rd photo.
Where is the mound of earth Rachel clambered up and was buried in? The woman shown lying bleeding from her nose and mouth is lying on a flat piece of ground, and she's not covered in sand. The photos of the friends seem posed. Hardly a frantic digging in motion of air of panic can be seen. There is also the issue of the photos having two different photographers, and time/date stamps on some and not others.


Quote:

Maybe Rachel didnt know who the hell lived in those homes but that they were illegally being dozed over so was there with others out of principal.
Hey, maybe she should have looked into it further before putting her life on the line then...and maybe revitioniss like yourself shouldn't attempt to capatilize on her death so it wasn't in "vain" ? Gosh Ranxer, why worry that she died in vain when she was acting as a human shield for a cause she believed a noble one?

International law says "the defending side is allowed to demolish enemies firing and fighting postions in order to prevent future or current warfare".

ranxer Apr 21st, 2003 07:47 PM

Quote:

Holy shit you're dense. Why would the lights on top raise and lower six inches?
hmm, maybe because the bucket goes up and down?

i was saying that that and the reflective color are the only two things that appear different in the two images after close inspection..

So you think that they just wanted to bulldoze one house? my understanding is that it was blocks of houses.. i dont think that someone opposed to it would need to find our the particular history for each shack to attempt to defend it.

After hearing many many stories of brutality endorsed by Isreal i have no reason to believe that they didnt intend to run over her.. but i admit that it still could have been an accident.. either way they don't always check homes before them mash them. so i'm not interested in continuing to give this incident a fine tooth comb.. the isreali musaad is a terrorist prone group that even many isrealis are protesting.. i don't know what they refrain from doing for thier actions are very secret.. i'm just pissed that they get a large chunk of my taxes for thier war toys >:[/quote]

Abcdxxxx Apr 21st, 2003 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ranxer
the isreali musaad is a terrorist prone group that even many isrealis are protesting.. i don't know what they refrain from doing for thier actions are very secret.. i'm just pissed that they get a large chunk of my taxes for thier war toys

Actually Ranxer, your taxes go to agricultural science that's going to allow even idiots like yourself to breath, inteligence... and debt relief for the creation of a state that took in millions of unwanted refugees from around the world. Israel has even requested less money then before, because their loan debt has decreased. The war toys you speak of are funded through the sale of other war toys. As for your statement on Mossad.... come back with some support for it and we can talk... in the meantime you're just a conspiracy theorist who believes everything printed on indymedia for fact. You never cease to amaze me how stupid you can sound.

One more thing. EVEN THE ISM ADMITS THESE WERE TWO DIFFERENT TANKS. Get a grip kid.

Abcdxxxx Apr 21st, 2003 09:31 PM

+r)? had to wrap your head around all that didn't you. Look, stop talking out of your ass.

[quote="KevinTheHerbivore"]
Quote:

Originally Posted by Abcdxxxx
Quote:

She was quoted as saying what a beautiful thing it was to sucide bomb.
Where? By the slander squads behind the IDF who would like to justify any brutal act as long as it's done by the "right" people, namely the IDF...? WHERE and WHEN did she say this? WHO cited this?

Rachel Corrie in her own words. .....
"I would also like to ask you, and those to whom you pass this on, to think about the relative positions of the fighters and occupiers in this monumentally unequal struggle. While the huge force of Israelis have every technical aid invented by the US war machine, the few young fighters have NOTHING BUT THEIR WEAPON (and this not the most modern) - no helmet, bullet proof vest, radio contact or other protection. No back-up, no plane, helicopter, tank, APC, searchlight, dogs, flares, ambulance or refuge - put all the Israeli/American propaganda aside for a few minutes and try to imagine, please, the courage it requires to do what these youngfighters do, knowing that the odds are against escape and that, every time they do succeed in evading death, the odds against a further survival are shortened. Even if the operation is a success the price is always high." - from her February 10th diary entry.

She lavishes praise on suicide bombers. She advocated the violence and mass murder of terrorist and criminal actions...she certainly believed in what she believed in, but she was not a peace activist.

Here she talks about a demonstration for Childrens rights where she refers to fatah, hamas, and PLFP as "community groups".......
The demonstration began at 11 and lasted about an hour. Children and representatives from community groups gave speeches in Arabic. Masses marched carrying signs and banners that said "Peace for children in Palestine and Iraq" and "The real terrorists are in the United States and Israel", among many other statements against war on Iraq, and in support of the Iraqi people. The internationals recognized symbols and banners from numerous school and community-groups, Fateh, DFLP, FIDA, PFLP, Hamas and many individual demonstrators among those marching.

One international delivered a speech in English, translated into Arabic by one of the Palestinian coordinators of ISM-Rafah. This speech decried the behaviour of the United States' and British governments, recognized the linkage between war on Iraq and increased destruction of Palestinian lives, and also recognized the mass mobilization of people around the world on behalf of peace, justice, and human rights. The international thanked the Palestinian people for offering a continuous example to the rest of the world of resistance against all odds.

As this speech was delivered, a British national burned a large British flag, and a US national burned a large US flag. Both activists then burned numerous images of US president George W. Bush. The woman who deliverd the speech burned a picture of the houses of Parliament in London. As the speech concluded they began to chant, with the crowd immediately surrounding them, "Hurriyah la Falasteen" –Freedom for Palestine—repeatedly.

Other groups burned a giant papier-maché model of an F-16 bomber, an effigy of Ariel Sharon, as well as giant Israeli, US, and British flags. "


She's political but she is NOT a peace activist. She's also supporting the indoctrinization of young children with hatred and the will to commit violent acts. She supported terrorism or um..."militants" ...and she was not ashamed of it. Call a spade a spade.


To her Mother she wrote....
"I thought a lot about what you said on the phone about Palestinian violence not helping the situation. "......"If any of us had our lives and welfare completely strangled, lived with children in a shrinking place where we knew, because of previous experience, that soldiers and tanks and bulldozers could come for us at any moment and destroy all the greenhouses that we had been cultivating for however long, and did this while some of us were beaten and held captive with 149 other people for several hours - do you think we might try to use somewhat violent means to protect whatever fragments remained? I think about this especially when I see orchards and greenhouses and fruit trees destroyed - just years of care and cultivation. I think about you and how long it takes to make things grow and what a labour of love it is. I really think, in a similar situation, most people would defend themselves as best they could. I think Uncle Craig would. I think probably Grandma would. I think I would. You asked me about non-violent resistance." http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0...916246,00.html

I've left out her long descriptions of what Israel does/did to provoke such violence...THE POINT here is that she did write sympathetic and romantic words towards the act of suicide bombing. It's in her own words... NOT propaganda published by the IDF.


The ISM support the Intifada. http://www.palsolidarity.org//whoarewe.htm
They support resistance, not peace. Ask Susan Barclay, another ISM worker who was recently deported from the West Bank. Yes she says they were there to take part in mundane activities like walking children to schools, etc. She also admitted in several interviews (I know of one with the Seattle Post-Intellifencer) that she knowingly worked with Hamas and Islamic Jihad, terrorist groups with charters calling for the complete demolishen of the Jewish state.

VinceZeb Apr 21st, 2003 10:00 PM

Sure thing, Kevin. I will go update my "porno" site with the vids of me hosing your mother down with my man chowder.

theapportioner Apr 21st, 2003 10:24 PM

I am glad I hadn't wasted my time on this before, and irritated to have just read all that garbage. Rachel Corrie's death neither justifies nor diminishes the moral arguments of the conflict, from any side. What irritates me, personally, is that these character assassinations, sensible or otherwise, aren't really about seeking the truth, but about making the grievances of the other side look like shit. Never mind the security question, or the refugee question, or the colonialism question -- we should instead occupy ourselves with annoying distractions like these. And that these distractions somehow invalidate the entire movement, or argument. Trash on the level of Hard Copy journalism, pretending to be morally supreme. But, I guess there is an audience for tabloid toss... Anyway, this is no longer worth a minute of my time.

Abcdxxxx Apr 21st, 2003 11:24 PM

apport - why even post if you're too self righteous to stay and debate your point. sorry it threatens your indymedia party line. you're a weak willed bitch who should step up and realize the importance of calling out "peace activists" that encourage children to strap on suicide belts to kill innocents. seriously. her death was very consequential to a lot of people on all sides of the conflict... glad it didn't matter to you.


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