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-   -   WikiLeaks (http://i-mockery.com/forum/showthread.php?t=69705509)

Zhukov Dec 23rd, 2010 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kahljorn (Post 708586)
Here's a definition of ESPIONAGE that i found:

KAHL: There are several definitions out there; I was going with

1. the systematic use of spies to obtain secret information, esp by governments to discover military or political secrets
2. the act or practice of spying


or

Espionage or spying involves an individual obtaining information that is considered secret or confidential without the permission of the holder of the information. Espionage is inherently clandestine, lest the legitimate holder of the information change plans or take other countermeasures once it is known that the information is in unauthorized hands.



I hate it when we whip out the dictionary to prove a point, and I just don't consider posting anonymously donated information on your website as espionage.

UGH.

The act of obtaining, delivering, transmitting, communicating, or receiving information about the national defense with an intent, or reason to believe, that the information may be used to the injury of the United States or to the advantage of any foreign nation. Espionage is a violation of 18 United States Code 792-798 and Article 106, Uniform Code o fMilitary Justice.

Dictionary of Military and Associated Terms. US Department of Defense 2005.


In this example you could argue for and against it, since Wikileaks is receiving the information (although they don't know what they are receiving) but they don't receive it with the intent to cause injury to the US or to advance any other nation. Unless you are Pentegarn and believe that he is doing it to bring about the end of mankind.

Quote:

ALSO you can't technically "STEAL" information/ideas anyway, so most of your arguments regarding it being "Stolen" are irrelevant. "Unlawful reproduction" or transmission would be more appropriate, i guess. So just replace all of those terms with stolen and it should be AOK. The only way you can really "Steal" information is if you use it first, claim it was yours and/or get the benefits.
My arguments AGAINST Assange stealing the information have always been the same; he isn't involved in obtaining it. My arguments AGAINST any one else stealing information is based in the facts that they are not outsiders hacking in to US military bases and stealing whatever Pentegarn thinks they are stealing but hasn't told us what. Neither of us were using a dictionary or the official US legal definition for 'stealing', both of us were simply using it as 'illegally obtaining'. If having classified documents leaked to you without any action on your part counts as 'stealing', and everyone in this thread uses that stance, then I guess I will change my use of "he didn't steal it" to "he didn't do any illegal actions to obtain it". Hasn't changed my stance.

Personally, I do think there are military secrets. The blue prints of your weapons, the names and families of your soldiers, other stuff, and honestly, if someone let that sort of information out then I can see why it's illegal. It's illegal to give it away, sure, but that is what we are dealing with, not someone stealing it from outside. This is what Pentegarn has asserted this whole time; be it Julian Assange himself, personally, or him encouraging or hiring others to do it for him. This is the 'stealing' and 'stolen' I am referring to. As I said, the legal terms are above me and I can concede that and it's not really a beating on my stance, since my stance is that the information has not been obtained illegally - Wikileaks did not hack computers to get it, and even though it was/is illegal for them to leak it, whomever uploaded it to wikileaks did not have to steal to get it.

For the record I'm only talking about hacking here because that is the ridiculous accusation I was dealing with - Julain Assange is a hacker thief anarchist terrorist.

PENTEGARN: Bye! Play again anytime! Thanks for going from 'kinda cool guy that I can respect' to 'wanker who can't have a discussion without getting aggressively personal'!

kahljorn Dec 23rd, 2010 08:24 AM

oh alright i gues i got the ISITSTOLEN/tRANSPARENCY/IS It A CRIME ATALL stuff all mixed up.

i still think its possible that he encourages people to leak pee on him, though.

Zhukov Dec 23rd, 2010 08:55 AM

R Kelly shows support to Julian Assange: LINK

Pentegarn Dec 23rd, 2010 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zhukov (Post 708720)
I hate it when we whip out the dictionary to prove a point, and I just don't consider posting anonymously donated information on your website as espionage.

So you hate it when someone posts something factual that is contrary to your views?

I see....

PS Thanks from going from 'guy I barely noticed' to 'douchebag who can dish out insults but gets pissy when he has to take them'

Tadao Dec 23rd, 2010 07:06 PM


MLE Dec 23rd, 2010 08:48 PM

Zhuk's got you beat out in senority, you know. Also, you started the name calling, and he didn't stoop to that level and continued to attack your arguments instead of you.

Tadao Dec 23rd, 2010 08:59 PM

GET BACK IN THE KITCHEN

Tadao Dec 23rd, 2010 09:01 PM

I have you beat in seniority, age, dominant sex also I have never actually been removed as mod of this forum. So shut it MLE and bake me a sweater.

kahljorn Dec 24th, 2010 05:14 AM

wanting to make love to tadao ruins your chances of making love with tadao >:

executioneer Dec 24th, 2010 05:22 AM

yeah tadao is **RAPES ONLY**

Pentegarn Dec 24th, 2010 06:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MLE (Post 708768)
Zhuk's got you beat out in senority, you know. Also, you started the name calling, and he didn't stoop to that level and continued to attack your arguments instead of you.

First off, I don't know what "senority" or even seniority for that matter, would have to do with this. Only seems to matter to people like you though

Second off, he threw the first insult when he said:

Quote:

Originally Posted by zukhov
So you ARE saying that gassing Kurds and torturing civilians should have been kept classified?

which I never actually said, and he knew I never actually said, he only posted that to as you so poetically put it, 'stoop to that level' first. And to make me look hateful to distract from what I was trying to say.

I get it MLE, you dislike me personally, I also don't give a crap. That said, the least you can do is not make up events to push that agenda along. Try to stick to things that actually happened mmmkay?

MLE Dec 24th, 2010 09:50 AM

Oh I never even slightly disliked you until reading this thread. And I still don't dislike you personally. I just don't understand your political views, despite your continued wordy efforts to show them off to everyone.

You've got to stop assuming people hate you when they put down your arguments. You'll never be on the debate team that way.

Zhukov Dec 24th, 2010 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pentegarn

Second off, he threw the first insult when he said:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zhukov
So you ARE saying that gassing Kurds and torturing civilians should have been kept classified?


That's a question, not an insult. You're just trying to cover up the fact that you got really pissed off really easily... as soon as you were asked to back up your accusations and explain your views.

Tadao Aug 16th, 2012 01:23 PM

I think it's awesome how shitty the wiki leaks guy life is now.

So now he's in Ecuador? Is that one of the "good" countries that doesn't abuse it's citizens?

kahljorn Aug 16th, 2012 03:35 PM

is this just the world powers trying to get back at him for revealing the truth?

Tadao Aug 16th, 2012 05:00 PM

I think it's the world powers getting back at him for trying to extort money from them.

Colonel Flagg Aug 16th, 2012 11:02 PM

I think his 15 minutes are up.

Zhukov Aug 22nd, 2012 01:03 PM

Can't help but think it would get wikileaks et al a lot of fame points if he was extradited to Sweden then the US, and then sentenced to death.

I'm sure he doesn't want to die though.

Tadao Aug 22nd, 2012 01:22 PM

I'm surprised we can't buy him off of Ecuador.

kahljorn Aug 23rd, 2012 04:13 AM

ecuador sounds like a really delicious place

i really just imagine the wikileaks guy living it up eating eclairs everyday and im kinda jealous

Tadao Aug 23rd, 2012 12:31 PM

I guess he's in London stuck inside the Ecuadorian embassy. :lol

kahljorn Aug 23rd, 2012 02:02 PM

how the hell did he end up getting political asylum from equador of all fucking places

is that like the political equivalent of me being so desperate for a job that i applied at fast food places?

Zhukov Aug 24th, 2012 04:04 AM

:lol


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