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However, considering how the general concensus is that such whistleblowers, including Assange himself, should be hanged or at least imprisoned for life, I understand if they prefer to remain anonymous. |
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Well, I sort of gave you the name of the most prominent whistleblower, so I don't know what you're whining about.
Secondly, hell yeah, I believe there should be plenty of secrets. I think there's plenty of material that should be kept away from the public eye. Patient journals, private details like religious conviction, sexual preferences, and all sorts of confidential material like therapy sessions, confessions, legal counselling, you name it. An important difference is that the material published at Wikileaks is not about people's private secrets, it's about their roles as statesmen and representatives of the people. It's about what they do when they're at work. And they're elected by us, and work for us, so if they're wasting our time and money cooking up trouble and being corrupt and ignorant, we deserve to know. |
Rights of the people vs rights of the government.
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I want all of their names. They are no longer working as private citizens, they are now acting as employees of the world. They have no rights to privacy.
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Not to mention 95 percent of these people probably work for a government. Therefore those people that do should be named publicly. The only way to know for sure is if all of their names are made public.
This appears to be my new right to information and transparency. |
what are you going on about? did you even try to get their names? WikiLeaks is managed by a small team of people, their identities aren't supposed to be secret. the site runs by allowing anyone to upload and submit documents anonymously, the team then outsource the work of verifying the documents to volunteer investigative journalists working for places like the New York Times and The Guardian. been going on for years.
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elx you're dumb
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very dumb
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but i was so sure that you were being serious :(
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try reading
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Express your thoughts in paint drawings. I understood you better back then. :\
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Guys, they can't tell if you're being serious unless you use the right emoticons :rolleyes
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I was being serious. Transparency of Government is something everybody thinks we need but in reality its retarded and it really doesn't help democracy at all. Also, we don't technically live in a "Democracy" but a representational democracy, and the reason why we have a representational democracy instead of a regular democracy is because we accept that people are way too stupid to rule a country. The only reason people are allowed to vote is to keep it from becoming an unchanging tyranny. Its a check of power, not a right to rule or anything.
Freedom of the press and transparency can only help a nation that is lead by reason and not EMOTIONS AND STUPIDITY, of which America is the later. In a nation led by EMOTIONS AND STUPIDITY practically every political act would seem unreasonable. Most people prolly don't even want transparency they just want political reality tv so they can get all asshurt about shit and have stuff to talk about. |
I can't help but wonder why it's OK to call it freedom of the press when they aren't doing any actual journalism, when all they are actually doing is posting things that are in fact the property of other entities? Journalism should have content that was written by the 'journalist' in question.
While we're on the subject, doesn't journalism require a degree? If every poster, blogger, and user of the internet is suddenly a journalist, then why not say next that I am a doctor because I put a band aid on a child? Heck I got a speeding ticket, pled guilty and paid the fine, by these new looser standards on what makes one an accredited professional in their field, I am currently a trial lawyer. :lol |
Because media and journalism aren't the same word.
And why would journalism require a degree? What does that avenue of reasoning have to do with ANYTHING anyway? |
Why would journalism require a degree? Because it does. You have to go to college to get a journalism degree. Try going to CNN without a journalism degree and applying for a journalist position. They would laugh you out of the building. Posting something on the internet does not make you a journalist, no matter how much you may wish otherwise. Just like me pleading guilty on a speeding ticket doesn't make me a trial lawyer. Otherwise we would all be journalists. We tell each other stuff here all the time. Doesn't make us an accredited source though.
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Also, nobody said that posting something on the internet made you a journalist. People said that releasing news items on the internet made you part of the media. Your straw man needs more work. |
Look, just because it is an absolute fact that your beloved anti American propaganda machine is not an accredited source that matters, just because it is about as reliable as a Coolinator post because it is a den of cowards posting stolen information anonymously without any story about said information whatsoever, doesn't mean you need to take it out on me with 19th century terms like straw man :lol
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HOW NAIVE!
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Julian Assange is not a hacker that steals military secrets. Do you honestly, after all this, still not get that?
Your posts and arguments are getting more retarded each time you're proven wrong :\ What are you actually arguing? Wikileaks can't be trusted? That the leaked information is all lies? |
At this point, I have said my piece. Now, I am just annoying an American hating pinko and laughing while doing it
And by the way, anyone thick enough to honestly believe communism is a good thing despite it repeatedly failing everywhere it is implemented has no right whatsoever telling anyone their arguments are retarded. :lol |
When deciding the sides of who wins a debate, I don't just consider the points that are made, but also whether or not the person acted like a child or not- resorting to petty insults and such.
Just thought you'd like to know how you come across to everyone else, Mr. Garn. |
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If you're done then be done; every thread that I post an opinion in doesn't have to eventually make it's way back to how wrong my political ideas are.
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I think they make a good point though. how valid can your political views be if they all involve your religious view
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But why would I expect any sort of consistency from you, that would be silly Quote:
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No, I said your arguments are getting retarded (Julian Assange is a cyber terrorist thief, and wikileaks is a dedicated anti-American propaganda machine - really? :\) and only asked you whether the holocaust should have been uncovered or not - since you were saying that governments should have the right to keep whatever secrets they deem necessary.
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Implications like you made are as good as saying it directly, and you knew that when you posted it
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I wasn't implying anything other than what I said. The fact that you think wikileaks can't be trusted (or that's what I assume you are saying) because Julian Assange hacks into US military computers and steals secret documents IS retarded.
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So your big defense of Assange is he didn't directly hack things and steal information himself? That others did it for him? That he created a place that encourages these acts therefore his hands are washed of these actions?
Sorry, that defense doesn't work. But since you like holocaust comparisons so much, let's use it right back on you to show you why. Hitler ordered the killing of 6 million Jewish people, and then let his men carry out the orders, so by your belief that the burden of guilt belongs only on those who directly acted, that would absolve him of the Holocaust. Yet, history disagrees with you, and so do I |
I think that Zhukov thinks that you're saying that the information that wikileaks released is not credible or something and I think that you think that military secrets and crap like that which would get people killed should not be released to the public, but I have yet to see any information released that would in fact pose a grave threat to national security. Everything that I have read in these leaks is largely information that anyone semi-interested in foreign relations and US politics would be able to infer or safely assume just from reading about it over time from the general media.
This includes the list of facilities which are listed as being vital to the United State's security in the leaks. Ports? Oil pipelines? Manufacturing plants? Mines? Communication systems? OH WOW THANK YOU WIKI LEAKS I WOULD HAVE NEVER KNOWN THESE THINGS COULD BE IMPORTANT OR THEIR LOCATIONS WITHOUT YOU Because I'm sure that terrorists and other states don't have access to an online search engine, maps or common sense but do have access to wikileaks. |
why put all of the work into searching when you can just pull up wikileaks and have everything you need? Wikileaks is like a superwalmart for terrorists
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well so is google, then
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NO YOU FOOLS ITS FROM TOO MUCH TRANSPARENCY! THERE IS NOTHING AS DESCTRUCTIVE AS FAIRNESS AND TRANSPARENCY!!! PENTEGARN WILL SAY "I TOLD YOU SO!" FOR HE HATH FORESEEN THE APOCALYPSE |
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sometimes
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man they should just mandate links to tvtropes be put on everything wikileaks posts, then everyone will be too distracted to do terrorism based on their information
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COUNTER-TERRORIST WILLIE
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Ah, no. Stop making things up. You've only come to that conclusion through a warping of your own ideas and opinions. Assange neither hacked for these things, nor told other people to hack or steal it. Christ, nothing was hacked into or stolen - it was LEAKED. Wikileaks didn't need to steal it since it was GIVEN TO THEM by people wishing to LEAK the information. Those people in turn had it given to them or put in their responsibility. Now, which is it - Assange steals military secrets, or he has people steal it for him? Either way it's dumb, but I want to know what you are saying here. While you are there, where are you getting your proof that Assange is hacking into things? Also; Quote:
While we are here, and since you are not as done as you say you are; what military secrets are we talking about? The ones that will bring about the destruction of American society should they become public. Blasted Child: I am too scared to even think up the situation where government transparency brings about the FALL OF MAN. I'm sure it exists. |
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:lol
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Also leaking military information is considered a crime labeled as SEDITION and you can get court-martialed and shit from it. So, yea, actually wikileaks is encouraging an environment of sedition. As for transparency hurting a country I'm sure we can think of something :O I'm sure there's been some stock market crashes/depressions caused by transparency which incited a panic in people. |
Newsflash! Stock market crashes and the depression weren't caused by the flawed mechanism of capitalism! It wasn't because bankers deliberately inflated the value of their shares, it wasn't because people borrowed money they couldn't pay back, encouraged by cynical and short-sighted politicans and already mentioned bankers, or housing bubbles that just had to burst, no no no!
WHAT WAS IT? I WONDER IF IT WAS THAT WRETCHED TRANSPARENCY AGAIN!!!? |
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 Wolf Blitzer Does not have a degree in Journalism.  A.J. Hammer Does not have a degree in Journalism  My main man Anderson Cooper Does not have a degree in Journalism  Larry King Didnt even go to college.  Ted Turner (founder of CNN) Was expelled from collage. |
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blasted child is trying to be funny?
it seems out of character |
I guess what we need to do is block sites with sensitive information, and make it impossible for people to blog about, or post sensitive information, perhaps by hiring some computer gurus who are loyal to their government and who can either selectively apply DNS attacks on those sites, or delete them from the web entirely. Then they could trace the perpetrators, and either have them arrested, or detained .....
Oh wait, China already does this don't they. |
you know what else we should do is let torrent sites just do their thing cause ultimately torrents are just information and there is a freedom of information act
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seems more like they are using freedom of the press as an excuse to violate laws in other countries. Basically, isn't he saying he wants to use journalists as spies and we should support this cause its like passive-aggressive spying? |
Of course. ;)
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just another example of how these journalists are trying to undermine authority with their dangerous sedition and "transparency"
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American
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I'm still waiting for the information I requested from wikilinks. I guess they aren't for transparency at all, they only wave that flag when it benefits them.
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I'm disappointed in our government for trying to force our laws and traditions on other people. Is that in the spirit of freedom?? :lol
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Here's today's pop quiz, kids
The Great Depression was caused by 1. Over-indebtedness and deflation, along with a growing housing bubble 2. Too much transparency (A clue: There was very little transparency at this time, and normal people had to wait outside the stock exchange and wait for news through word of mouth. Most ordinary share holders were kept in the dark.) |
here's a clue: nobody actually knows what caused the great depression
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Everyone knows the great depression came about when transparency caused everyone to loose faith in the governments ability to safeguard their money which resulted in the closure of the FDIC. :rolleyes
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Yeah, let's blame it on people's reactions, instead of what they are in fact reacting on
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:lol
yea everybody knows that the real cause of every depression and recession is PANIC as EVIDENCED by this picture:
I believe you yourself posted this compelling document which so accurately depicts every recessionary force. I BELIEVE THIS ARGUMENT IS NOW FINISHED |
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Ultimately, they will find they are in the un-silent minority, I have questioned dozens of people about this. To a man they all agree wikileaks is a destructive force, that full transparency is unrealistic, and that the only people who are for wikileaks are those who love to hate America Earlier the founding fathers were quoted talking about the need for open governments. But the thing is that these things they said were said in a time when all you needed to defend your life and your property was a gun. It isn't that simple now. For example, the SSA is a government organization, if Zhukov and Blasted Child have their way, hundreds of millions of Social Security numbers will be considered public record because they are after all government documents. A gun can't defend you from an identity thief that then uses that posted information to steal your identity from halfway across the world. But hey, let's get all that government information out there we have a right to it right? :rolleyes |
well the whole using a ssn to determine someone's identity is such a flawed and archaic system anyways
we should just switch to getting rfid chips embedded at birth, then the only way to steal someone's identity will be to chop off bits |
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So, where is your proof that Julian Assange or Wikileaks are hacking into and stealing US military secrets? What are the sensitive military secrets that Wikileaks has stolen, and why are they so dangerous if people know about them? How does Wikileaks encourage other people to hack and steal information for them? |
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apparently some levels of opaqueness are acceptable however it is to be determined by whomever is not someone you agree with
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Typical American Patriot: "Don't trust the government! We should protect and care for ourselves, that's why we should all get to carry guns!"
Me: "Yeah, that Bush character seems a bit shady." TAP: "Don't bad-mouth our president! Stop hating America! If you're not with us you're against us!!" Me: "Ok, ok, fine." TAP: "Now that liberal hippie Obama is in charge! He can't be trusted! He's probably not even born in the US!!" Me: "Well, since you can't seem to trust your government, I guess you should demand more transparency." TAP: "Transparency??? We're doing just fine!! Stop hating America!" Me: "Ok, ok, just saying that if there was more transparency, your leaders wouldn't get away with being corrupt and negligent and incompetent as easily." TAP: "Shut up you fucking commie!!" Me: "Aren't the nations you (wrongly) associate with communism characterised by their lack of governmental transparency?" TAP: "I've talked to dozens of my colleagues over at the windshield repair shop, and they all agree with me, and they all agree you hate America!!" Me: "Ok, you win." |
Blastedchild if youcan't take this conversation seriously maybe you should go find s message board with more teenagers.
The funny thing is that it was pretty widely known before bush even got into office that he was corrupt, and yet... it was pretty widely known what bush's reasons for going to war were and yet... |
Like people even know the difference between "A growing housing bubble" and a "REAL GUUT DEAL ON MY HOUSE"
WHYS DA GOVERNMENT INTERFERIN WITH MY CHAP HOUSES. ISNT A GROWING HOUSING BUUBA A GOOD THING? LIKE THAT MEANS THERE WILL BE MORE HOUSES RIGHT AND PEOPLE WILL BUY THEM ALL AND LIVE INSIDE THE BUBBAS SO WHYS THE GUBERMENT INCREASIN MY MARTGAGE. |
Typical Sweden : I can't say Hitler was an evil leader that needed to be stopped because I must remain neutral.
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Typical and legitimate American concerns about the housing market:
WHERE WILL ALL THE GOOD WITCHES LIVE WHEN THE HOUSIng bUBBLE BURSTS OUR LEADERS CANNOT BE ALLOWED TO GET AWAY WITH THIS!!!!!!!!!! |
So Blasted Child, now that you have all this information, what are you planning to do with it? Other than complaining about the injustices of the world on the internet.
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Oh wait, I asked a Sweed to commit to a political stance. That was unfair of me.
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Sweden is like the political version of a peeping tom with erectile dysfunction.
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isnt sweden the place charging him with surprise sex?
:lol i guess swedes startle easily a lot of heart attacks are caused by surprise sex in sweden |
:lol
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I like how you make it sound like I support the policies of the Swedish government, or am somehow responsible for it...
"He sad something bad about USA!!" (although I didn't) "Let's get back at him by saying bad things about Sweden, that should shut him up!" Just to get it out of your system; I'm not a fan of the Swedish government, in fact I take every opportunity I can to criticize it in Swedish media. It must seem very alien to you, to nurture such anti-patriotic ideas |
Oh, I thought we were making general assumptions about people based on where they lived. Of course you're gonna back down and be all wishy washy now, being a Sweed and all.
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Your obsession with Sweden and Swedes is touching. I should invite you over and introduce you to some tall, busty blondes, that should soften you up
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Tadao I can't tell if you meant to make Switzerland generalisation jokes or not.
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No thanks, you guy seem really dull and depressing.
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Ouch, being called dull and depressing by Tadao must be the ultimate insult :(
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Eh, never mind. |
Never mind what? During the world wars they were pussies.
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Never mind because it isn't really a funny joke.
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*Swedish generalisation*
I can't tell if you are thinking Sweden is Switzerland or not. They are both the same. Eh, not really but never mind. They were both neutral. It's not even funny never mind. What's your point? They were both officially neutral to Hitler, so even if you are mistakenly thinking that Sweden is Switzerland, or pretending to think that as a joke, I can't tell. |
You might think in your head I said "they were the same" but as you can see I said " It's pretty sad that they are comparable in that way."
So it's more like Sweden was a pussy in WW2 Are you thinking about Switzerland? No, but Switzerland was a giant pussy as well. No How is that no? Nevermind. |
Yeah ok, they are comparable in that regard. But you know, never mind.
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FUCK IKEA
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Tadao, if it would make you feel better, I can play along and pretend to be extremely offended by your attacks on Sweden.
I can pretend that it hurts a lot to hear you talk about events that took place 40 years before my birth, by a government I don't support, and I can also take back everything I've said about transparency so far, because I've suddenly understood the logical connection between your endless indignant ramblings about Swedes being pussies and the dangers of governmental transparency, it just makes so much sense now! |
Sometimes when I enter this forum and there is a debate about international politics, I really think to myself "careful now, Blasted Child, don't push Tadao's buttons!" because I know how sensitive these things are, different nations and USA and Sweden and so on, I know that Tadao, but it's difficult, because your buttons are just so many and so big!
It's like "I'm just gonna... stretch... my arms a little and..." wham! I hit one of your buttons. |
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