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-   -   I-Mockery Chat (Lube up those lips) (http://i-mockery.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8799)

Babs Jul 23rd, 2013 02:08 PM

Do you have any pictures of him before molting then after? It would be even more awesome if you had a a small video of him molting! I hear they get really pissy before and after. My curiosity needs to be satisfied, and I don't want to see a YouTube of some other dude's tarantula, that's to impersonal for me.

Tadao Jul 23rd, 2013 02:57 PM


Aaarg Jul 23rd, 2013 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Babs (Post 767731)
Do you have any pictures of him before molting then after? It would be even more awesome if you had a a small video of him molting! I hear they get really pissy before and after. My curiosity needs to be satisfied, and I don't want to see a YouTube of some other dude's tarantula, that's to impersonal for me.

that's likely a female. well, i hope it's a female. i guess i could find out whenever i get the exuvia out of her tank, but i don't even know exactly what i'd be looking for.

also, nah, i usually miss the actual molting process, and can only tell by the fact that my spider is bigger and more vibrant and there's an empty spider in the tank with it. i do my best to not move their enclosures right after molts, just because i don't want to disturb 'em.

molts can be dangerous. sometimes a chunk of the old exoskeleton gets stuck, or the new exoskeleton tears, or w/e. the only tarantula we've had die so far died in the middle of a molt (although it was basically dying for weeks leading up to it, definitely didn't have enough energy to molt but it tried anyway :( ).

and it's not really something worth taping, unless you sped up the footage a lot. it's a pretty slow process, with lots of slow tugging.


the neatest pre- and post-molt pictures i have are of a young brachypelma emilia, and it's really only neat because the spider didn't have any of its adult coloration and then it molted and the colors were like... BAM!


King Hadas Jul 26th, 2013 01:32 AM

Not too long ago I was scanning the comments of some blog and I came across this automated spam that really made me laugh.

"Can I simply just say what a relief to discover a person that actually
understands what they're discussing on the web. You definitely know how to bring an issue to light and make it important. A lot more people need to check this out and understand this side of your story. I was surprised that you're not more popular because you definitely have the gift.

[link removed]"

Aaarg Jul 26th, 2013 02:37 PM

yeah, i love when those are on, like, music blogs.

10,000 Volt Ghost Aug 3rd, 2013 02:08 PM

Just watched Farrah from Teen mom get drilled in the asshole. Made having to sit through all those teen mom marathons worth it.

Kitsa Aug 3rd, 2013 09:27 PM

And then she was afraid he'd gotten her pregnant.

kahljorn Aug 12th, 2013 08:42 PM

so.. my ex who tried to kill me a bunch of times and was extremely abusive now speaks for this organization that fights violence or some shit. She even has her picture up.

lol

life is kinda dumb sometimes

Tadao Aug 12th, 2013 11:38 PM

sometimes?

kahljorn Aug 13th, 2013 12:28 AM

most of the time

shes actually on the poster and shit

like shes the postergirl for anti-violence and stuff
seriously

Tadao Aug 13th, 2013 12:43 AM

There was a teen slut where I used to live and she liked to fuck 20 year olds while she was 14ish. She was always all up in everyone trying to get mature cock and everyone I knew was all "Bitch I aint going to jail for your ugly ass".

Years later she was on a Jesus commercial for abstinence. I kept thinking that she would still take a cock in the cunt if anyone offered but this is a great way to show her school friends that she's not a whore.

lol

kahljorn Aug 13th, 2013 01:37 AM

not really as disgusting as being a hella violent person trying to act like you're against violence, but definitely as funny.

Aaarg Aug 15th, 2013 12:04 PM

court-mandated community service

Tadao Aug 15th, 2013 12:13 PM

Now that you mention it, it does sound like something a judge would make you do.

kahljorn Aug 15th, 2013 03:29 PM

lol

Esuohlim Aug 17th, 2013 11:06 AM

KAHLJORN, some guy who said he was you tried to add me on Facebook

Tadao Aug 17th, 2013 02:58 PM

It's probably his ex hiding in the bushes with a crowbar.

Esuohlim Aug 18th, 2013 11:03 AM

I called him out on being an IMPOSTOR and then he basically blocked me so I'm thinking it was some long-forgotten womti-type jerk from 9 years ago who is still mad that I made fun of him on the internet

Tadao Aug 18th, 2013 01:20 PM

You should have just freinded him then. He would have super depressed at the lack on info he gets from your fb page lol

10,000 Volt Ghost Aug 21st, 2013 01:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kahljorn (Post 767783)
so.. my ex who tried to kill me a bunch of times and was extremely abusive now speaks for this organization that fights violence or some shit. She even has her picture up.

lol

life is kinda dumb sometimes

I will punch her in her GD cunt. Just let me know when. I will declare diplomatic immunization prior to her muff Tiger Uppercutting.

10,000 Volt Ghost Aug 21st, 2013 01:36 AM

I tried measuring out the size for flyers for our club earlier and microsoft word fucking said like 6 inches was like 8.5 inches so I thought my dick shrunk all day until I got home and busted out the ruler to make sure my dong was he same length. I don't know if my monitor is widescreen at work but I had real bad anxiety all fucking day. Like my dick shrunk in Microsoft word anxiety.

Aaarg Aug 21st, 2013 09:12 AM

stretch to fit

kahljorn Aug 22nd, 2013 03:08 PM

dude that was me esuolohim didnt you notice that i have wilie and william on my facebook?

lol
i just deactivated my facebook the other day ill prolly reactivate it soon

Esuohlim Aug 22nd, 2013 08:05 PM



I feel pretty rad right now you guys

Esuohlim Aug 22nd, 2013 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kahljorn (Post 767816)
dude that was me esuolohim didnt you notice that i have wilie and william on my facebook?

lol
i just deactivated my facebook the other day ill prolly reactivate it soon

I did notice this but I am on my guard about these things as I am a notorious internet presence.

kahljorn Aug 22nd, 2013 08:44 PM

so famous people friend your friends to be friends with you

Esuohlim Aug 22nd, 2013 09:37 PM

i know right it seems weird to me too

Tadao Aug 23rd, 2013 03:32 PM

It must be hard being the guy from that movie that was about not going to school.

Zomboid Aug 24th, 2013 12:40 AM

One or more of you is friends with Willie on Facebook? Is he still a bronie?

kahljorn Aug 24th, 2013 01:37 AM

he seems more depressed than bronie, but maybe those go hand in hand

Zomboid Aug 24th, 2013 03:11 AM

Huh. Well...Yeah, I really don't have anything to say.

Is anyone else gonna get a PS4? We can play games online, like we briefly did with Red Dead Redemption! Actually, I think GTA V has multiplayer!

Seven Force Aug 27th, 2013 07:23 PM

Nah I'm gonna stick with my Genesis. :)








:(

10,000 Volt Ghost Aug 28th, 2013 02:35 AM

I'm going to get a ps4 because all my friends care more about their gamerscore than playing with friends.

Like what the fucking shit.

SuperYuriGagarin Aug 29th, 2013 07:39 PM

I'll probably wind up with a ps4. Stoked as hell for GTAV's mp. RDR and IV were pretty damned phenomenal.

Babs Aug 29th, 2013 09:48 PM

I winder what that kid microshock is getting.

10,000 Volt Ghost Sep 1st, 2013 01:13 AM

Probably some ball hair by now.

Dimnos Sep 1st, 2013 02:40 AM

Ill be getting the PS4 at some point.

Big McLargehuge Sep 1st, 2013 06:23 PM

I'm not going to get one!

Ex Leper Sep 1st, 2013 06:26 PM

I only just got my first PS1 at a yardsale for 2 dollars, now i have the difficult task of finding a copy of Skullmonkeys.

Tadao Sep 1st, 2013 07:46 PM

You can get a transistor for ps1 so that you can play burned games. best investment I ever made back then.

Aaarg Sep 3rd, 2013 11:37 PM

or if it's an old psx you can just use the swap trick

does it have a/v jacks in the back?

MarioRPG Sep 4th, 2013 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10,000 Volt Ghost (Post 767860)
Probably some ball hair by now.

I imagine we'll find out near Christmas.

10,000 Volt Ghost Sep 8th, 2013 10:31 AM

Fuck, is he old enough now?

Also getting a ps4

Aaarg Sep 9th, 2013 03:17 PM

did you guys know GOBLIN is on tour?

i'm going to see goblin live.

i am excited.

Babs Sep 25th, 2013 03:33 PM

Wait..... Goblin.... THE goblin in giallo flicks. Just saw deep red awhile ago, that has to be my best Goblin score so far.

Oh yeah, I miss you guys and hope yalls is still being sexy asses.

Aaarg Sep 26th, 2013 07:20 PM

yes THE goblin

LordSappington Sep 30th, 2013 04:38 PM

I like to wait at least six months before getting a new-gen console. Gives them time to iron out some bugs and for developers to stop thinking like the last generation still.

On that note, all of it looks kinda really lame to me :(

Tadao Sep 30th, 2013 07:16 PM

Can't post this in TV because certain people will bleed out their vagina, but Breaking Bad season 5 and and 6 suck ass shit. They could have ended it a million cool ways, instead they went all predictable.

Fuck them.

LordSappington Oct 1st, 2013 03:56 PM

I didn't like it at all. Too much growling at the camera for extended periods

Tadao Oct 1st, 2013 08:50 PM

Gustavo dead = lack of interesting characters.

HickMan Oct 2nd, 2013 05:46 PM

:pagebrak

HickMan Oct 2nd, 2013 05:52 PM

I'll be getting a ps4 at some point as well. I'd like to wait a little while after it comes out but the ol' lady wants one pretty much day of.

GTA Online would be super badass fun if it actually freakin' worked. Tried to get on numerous times yesterday to no avail. We'll see how it goes.

My PSN Name is cdun136 though for anyone that wants to not play online with me.

BTW sup guys?

kahljorn Oct 2nd, 2013 08:16 PM

I stopped watching breaking bad i think at the end of season 4 or 5, when they were considering killing gus.

the reason i stopped watching is because i realized that every season has the same formula. WALT WANTS TO MAKE DRUGS BUT JESSIE DOESNT BECAUSE SOMETHING BAD HAPPENED TO HIM/WALTS A JERK/ETC. SOME SHIT HAPPENS THAT LOOKS KINDA GRUESOME AND COOL. SUDDENLY JESSIE WANTS TO MAKE DRUGS. WALTS WIFE STARTS ACTING LIKE A BITCH. WALT NO LONGER WANTS TO MAKE DRUGS. SHIT HAPPENS THAT LOOKS KINDA GRUESOME AND COOL. SOMETHING MAYBE BAD HAPPENS THAT TURNS EVERYTHING ON ITS HEAD
END OF SEASON
NEXT SEASON
WALT WANTS TO MAKE DRUGS BUT JESSIE DOESNT BECAUSE SOMETHING BAD HAPPENED TO HIM/WALTS A JERK/ETC.

once you realize that the only thing that show had going for it was drugs and ATMS falling on people's heads

kahljorn Oct 2nd, 2013 11:58 PM

man college students are straight up faggots

my one room mate ALWAYS starts fights with me cuz he thinks he is tough shit, but he ALWAYS backs down. everytime. then he tries to act like im an asshole or some shit.
and the university has some rule that if you punch a room mate out you get expelled.

life sucks

HickMan Oct 3rd, 2013 03:04 AM

I'm a door guy on 6th street in Austin...I know how you feel. I'm a pretty small dude, and when I have to deny grown men at the door for being too intoxicated, they always talk big shit.

But I'm always polite. And that drives them nuts. Some people will try and threaten me with violence and I always tell them the same thing: "Either back up what you're saying or get outta my face cuz I'm working"

I'd love to scrap it out with some of these rich trust fund babies that come into my bar that act like they're the shit. But they're all pussies.

kahljorn Oct 3rd, 2013 12:07 PM

:lol dude thats exactly what its like here. a bunch of spoiled little kids and shit.
the last time my room mate got up in my face (he started the whole thing) i was about to punch him in his face, and i was like, "If you don't get the fuck out of my face right now I'm gonna sock you in your ugly face." and he was like, "YOU DO THAT AND IM CALLING THE COPS AND YOU'RE OUT OF HERE." Pussy.

how do people like that exist. My theory is that none of my room mates were spanked as children. I'm gonna ask them about this next time i see them :)

Tadao Oct 3rd, 2013 12:17 PM

:lol I was just going to say that they were never hit by their parents. Fucking little shits.

kahljorn Oct 3rd, 2013 02:48 PM

yea.. they've been trying to get me kicked out for months just cause i told them that i expect them to buy a vacuum cleaner and a trashcan (after four months of living here). They told me we should all contribute something, so I brought an entire living room worth of furniture. They told me they got kitchen stuff and bought "bathroom stuff." The bathroom stuff was a one dollar hand soap dispenser, we only have like 4 forks and I brought most of the dishes. Most of the stuff they "contributed" they sold within the first week of living here because my stuff was so cool. They didn't even bother to use the hundreds of dollars they made from that to buy a cheap trashcan or vacuum cleaner. I literally had to beg them to buy a broom from the dollar store. Also my one room mate wouldn't even let me hit his bong because it has "sentimental value." :lol
the first time that guy tried to start a fight with me was because i told him i was bringing way more shit than him so i kinda expect him to stfu about me paying rent late the first month (school ends in the middle of a month, so i wasnt even living here when we could move in). He wrote me and said some shit like, "PAY UR FUCKIN RENT." Started a fight with me, lost, then got on facebook and dug up old photos of me and posted shit talking stuff. I embarrassed him on facebook so he deleted what he wrote. Anyway, turns out he paid rent late the first month too and EVERY SINGLE MONTH after that :lol
so yea they called the landlord to spy on my pot plants, but i replaced the lock so they couldnt get in my room. lol. I'm also pretty sure my one room mate stole my wallet and tried to get me arrested/kicked out of school because there were two hits of acid in it. Two+ weeks after it mysteriously went missing it turned up somewhere on campus that i never go to with most of the money still inside and the two hits of acid inside. weird right? wallets don't usually go missing that long and still have mostly intact money and drugs. but i dunno maybe i dropped it in a bush or some shit. Pretty sure i remember leaving it here though.
additional evidences of wallet theft, conversation with room mate:
"Hey I can't find my wallet have you seen it"
"bhrbhrbhrrbhrbh(stuttering) you have a wallet? I didn't even know you had a wallet"
"Yes. That's a pretty weird response."
"What does it look like?"
"Like a wallet that doesn't belong to anybody else in the house."
"WELL IM GONNA GO CLEAN MY ROOM NOW CAUSE THIS IS FUCKED UP"
:lol
i dunno maybe the guy is just weird. You should've seen his face though, like a deer in headlights.

fuckin douche bags
the best part is the other day we ran out of trashbags. I already do most of the cleaning around th ehouse so i was like, "hey how about if i buy the trashbags and you guys take the trash out from now on."
My one sociopathic room mate then declared, "Hey i bought trashbags from the dollar store last time."
"Well you should work some shit out with the other guys so they have to do some extra trash taking outs."
"Yea like we should have some kind of system so that when you do good stuff you get rewarded for it."
"yea like if you bring 500 dollars worth of furniture, dishes (also an xbox and a printer) and everything else a house needs and your room mates bring 15 dollars worth of pots and pans and a toaster maybe they should have to buy a trashcan and a vacuum cleaner."
*roommate goes to room plots revenge*

greatest event ever.

Tadao Oct 3rd, 2013 09:30 PM

Oh man, best tv show ever!

kahljorn Oct 4th, 2013 02:40 AM

:)
life is fun sometimes

Tadao Oct 4th, 2013 04:37 AM

Sup Hickman?

HickMan Oct 4th, 2013 04:50 AM

I'd be looking into moving into a new place...Man I really can't imagine living with someone else unless I'm fucking them these days. Did that for 4 years in the army...over it haha.

BTW AWESOME BAR STORY FROM TONIGHT!

So I was doing my rounds tonight, which was actually a decent Thursday. Walked with a good tipout and such.. Anyway, this roided out kid that was wearing a Hollister or Abercrombie polo WAAAY too small for him (didn't even think that shit was popular anymore) was walking towards me down this hallway (where the bathrooms are located) and shoulder checked me. I turned around, stared him down (I'm probably about 50lbs less than this kid...and like I said, he was pretty jacked) and I said "Do we have a problem?" He saw my tshirt and realized I was working and said "Oh no man my bad" I politely told him "Look dude, that shit doesn't fly at this bar. You're on WEST 6th Street (where all the rich yuppies come and get fucked up) not DIRTY 6th (college doucher fist pumpers)." He said sorry and went into the rest room.

I noticed after that though that he was in there for a little while, so I peeked my head into the men's room. We have only one stall and a urinal in the bathroom, and I saw TWO sets of feet in the stall...so they were either doing coke or sucking dick... So I banged on the stall door and yelled "THERE'S ONLY TWO THINGS YOU GUYS ARE DOING IN THERE AND NEITHER ARE GOOD" They one guy screams "We're doing coke We're doing coke!"

Needless to say, Mr. Roids left without a fuss and his whole doucher crew had to leave with him. With one of his friends calling him a piece of shit because the bar that I work at attracts ALL the fine ladiez.

HickMan Oct 4th, 2013 04:51 AM

Whudup Tadao

Tadao Oct 4th, 2013 05:58 AM

lol I did coke in the bathrooms at bars but we did it though bullets and by the sinks like grown ups.

kahljorn Oct 4th, 2013 03:43 PM

:lol
they coulda been doing molly too. i do that shit in bathrooms all the time

i got a bullet now though, so no more DECADENCE doing lines off of dirty toilet paper containers :(

10,000 Volt Ghost Oct 5th, 2013 03:19 AM

It sounds like the kind of people where if they were to die I wouldn't care....like for a few days until they started to stink and rot and shit themselves. Thats when I would toss their asses to the curb.

LordSappington Oct 6th, 2013 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HickMan (Post 768152)
I'm a door guy on 6th street in Austin...

I'm down on SoCo. We get a bunch of people tweaking out on shit and creepy homeless dudes. Also tons of dickweeds because fuck SoCo

HickMan Oct 8th, 2013 03:25 AM

I live on SoCo and I can't fucking stand it...It's such a nice apartment complex but the other residents are spoiled St. Ed's kids that just trash the place all the time. When my girlfriend and I moved in here, it was really quiet and nice, but this past summer has just been full of fuck.

I love Austin but I really hate a lot of Austinites.

OH AND ANOTHER SUPER COOL STORY FROM HICKMAN'S BAR EXPERIENCE!

This past Saturday night was especially shitty since Austin City Limits is going on and people think they can day drink, take a shit ton of 5 hour energies and coke, attempt to sober up, and go out and drink again at 11pm.

So needless to say, the people walking into the bars are ticking time bombs. All it takes is basically one drink and they're fucked.

This one drunk broseph rocking a Corona tank top was so drunk he snuck into the back office "looking for the bathroom". The barback (super awesome and good guy but when shit goes down, is the first to get into the mix) threw this kid out and told me not to let him back in. I was at the door when this all happened.

After we exchanged a few words, I told him he needed to leave before I and my managers get upset. So he eventually left and walked around to adjacent alley way and relieved himself. He eventually came back around to the right side of the bar where there is a fence separating the bar and the sidewalk (perfect place for people watching) and this fool thought he could jump it without getting noticed. I immediately went up to him, grabbed his arm, flipped him around and chicken-winged him. Took him straight to the gate and quite literally threw him out.

This is the part that kind of blew my mind... He called me a bitch. I get called a million things every night. From asshole, dickhead, dick-wad, faggot, idiot, moron, fucker etc...but a bitch?! I'm pretty sure I just manhandled that kid and he has the balls to call me a bitch?

Well, it didn't really bother me that much as it more or less confused me. I told him "Have a good night!" like I do to all the drunk morons I throw out.

Thankfully only one more weekend of ACL remains.

LordSappington Oct 8th, 2013 02:49 PM

I'm working at an ice cream store. We've been getting tons of tourists for ACL who can't be bothered to read or find the menus, and hold up the line coordinating with their friends. The worst have been the people who make a 'line' by just bunching up all over, and blocking the whole sidewalk, then ignoring me when I tell them to move it. Californians...

Tadao Oct 8th, 2013 05:00 PM

Oh man, I can totally see you slinging ice cream.
:chuckleworthy

LordSappington Oct 8th, 2013 05:43 PM

It's kind of therapeutic to beat the shit out of the ice cream when annoying people want a bunch of awful candy/cookie combinations in it

10,000 Volt Ghost Oct 9th, 2013 01:57 AM

What's an ACL thats not an injury?

HickMan Oct 9th, 2013 03:46 AM

Do you work at Amy's? I'm closer to the far south location, basically just south of St. Ed's.

And ACL stands for the Austin City Limits music festival.

LordSappington Oct 10th, 2013 01:28 AM

I'm in the Amy's closest to the bridge.

I don't know the full story, but a co-worker was at the window a month ago, and some lady ran down the sidewalk and punched a girl in the back of the head; someone heard later that she had stolen a tip jar or something downtown, was on drugs, and had jumped off a building at the end of the night. Hear anything about that?

HickMan Oct 10th, 2013 05:32 PM

:pagebrak
No but I'm not the least bit surprised.

Esuohlim Oct 10th, 2013 09:17 PM


Tadao Oct 10th, 2013 10:38 PM


kahljorn Oct 11th, 2013 03:32 PM

is that really an adult or like a 13 year old with a hella padded bra?

lol

Tadao Oct 11th, 2013 06:10 PM

That's ELX, you decide heh

MarioRPG Oct 12th, 2013 01:04 PM

Hickman, it's great to see you continued to be awesome in your absence.
Thanks for posting the giant dildo pic Tadao! It actually got me to post a reply instead of just lurking.

HickMan Oct 13th, 2013 05:17 AM

Thanks, dude. It's really easy to be not-awesome. Glad to get some assurance that I didn't become a Doucher McDoucheFace.

Nothing really new or interesting has happened in the bar the past few nights. Except for maybe a group of these jewish hoes that have a crush on me were hittin on me pretty hard tonight. And that's always a good time. I call them my Hebrew Hunnies. Not to their faces though...

Tadao Oct 13th, 2013 11:31 AM

When the lick your taint they can really get that nose all it in your butt. You know, if your into that or whatever. ;)

HickMan Oct 14th, 2013 06:34 PM

Youre a bad person for saying that.

MarioRPG Oct 15th, 2013 08:54 PM

Tadao's a bad person for a lot more reasons than that.







but we love him :)

Dimnos Oct 18th, 2013 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by executioneer (Post 768270)
Kay-kiokio cowboy
Kay-kiokio-hoo
Kay-kio-kio cowboy, cowboy, cowboy,
under the moon. >:

I was ridin' my horse
by the Rio Grandee
and all o' them coyotes singing
in a prairie symphony. >:

I was ridin' my horse
down by the Rio Grandee
when I seen me a cowboy, cowboy, cowboy,
ridin' toward me. >:

Kay-kiokio cowboy
Kay-kiokio-hoo
Kay-kiokio cowboy, cowboy, cowboy,
under the moon.


Bullshit!

If this is real, wb dude.

HickMan Oct 18th, 2013 01:20 PM

Every time I view a post from willie I end up listening to Wu-Tang.

executioneer Oct 19th, 2013 04:39 AM

nice place you got here, I'll take it

Tadao Oct 19th, 2013 11:41 AM

was it the ELX w/ dildo?

executioneer Oct 19th, 2013 01:46 PM

that old chestnut? heck no

Esuohlim Oct 19th, 2013 02:12 PM

Four months until the 10 year anniversary of post count fights? :eek

The Leader Oct 19th, 2013 06:30 PM

I forgot elx existed.

executioneer Oct 19th, 2013 10:22 PM

no i got bored :-[ :-[ :-[

HickMan Oct 20th, 2013 05:38 AM

Same reason as me. I remember when this message board was the place to be here on the net.

Esuohlim Oct 20th, 2013 06:29 PM

It still is dude we've really kept up with the times. check out these memes i've got

executioneer Oct 20th, 2013 07:21 PM

you ingorant fuck

HickMan Oct 21st, 2013 01:32 AM

#like

Tadao Oct 22nd, 2013 03:17 PM


executioneer Oct 22nd, 2013 06:40 PM

http://youtu.be/zgJp7aLLZdU?t=3m12s

SLAP DAT ASS

MarioRPG Oct 22nd, 2013 09:53 PM

Err'body be coming back to post. Must be the Halloweentimes. :halloween2

Esuohlim Oct 22nd, 2013 10:54 PM

I just found a fun new game. It's called go through your old I-Mock private messages and try not to cringe.

I did a lot of GETTING TO KNOW PEOPLE THROUGH FRANK DISCUSSION :(


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