[El Blanco]

completely different? i think not, he didn't butcher and edit the speeches.. he cut to boil down his point

No. He took speeches from 3 different occasions and cut out and glued together certain parts and then told the viewers that they were the same speech given in Denver as some sort of act of defiance. If that isn't btchering and editing, what is? If that isn't at least dishonest, what is?

you don't like the assertion fine say so, don't discredit the concept based on some editing slices.

Those editing slices were the entire basis for his assertions.

WHERE?

Everytime he falsly presented evidence. Did you even look at the critisiscm or simply write it off as "nitpicking"?

they didn't?
moore implied it.. maybe even asserted it.. i don't have the information to prove him incorrect.. please help me out and point me to some counter info on the formation of the NRA

I don't have to prove innocence. Moore has to prove his accusation, which he didn't.

But, since you didn't read it the first time

Originally Posted by hardylaw.net

his sequence is intended to create the impression either that NRA and the Klan were parallel groups or that when the Klan was outlawed its members formed the NRA.

Both impressions are not merely false, but directly opposed to the real facts.


Fact: The NRA was founded in 1871 -- by act of the New York Legislature, at request of former Union officers. The Klan was founded in 1866, and quickly became a terrorist organization. One might claim that while it was an organization and a terrorist one, it technically became an "illegal" such with passage of the federal Ku Klux Klan Act and Enforcement Act in 1871. These criminalized interference with civil rights, and empowered the President to use troops to suppress the Klan. (Although we'd have to acknowledge that murder, terror and arson were illegal long before that time -- the Klan hadn't been operating legally until 1871, it was operating illegally with the connivance of law enforcement.)


Fact: The Klan Act and Enforcement Act were signed into law by President Ulysess S. Grant. Grant used their provisions vigorously, suspending habeas corpus and deploying troops; under his leadership over 5,000 arrests were made and the Klan was dealt a serious (if all too short-lived) blow.

Fact: Grant's vigor in disrupting the Klan earned him unpopularity among many whites, but Frederick Douglass praised him, and an associate of Douglass wrote that African-Americans "will ever cherish a grateful remembrance of his name, fame and great services."

Fact: After Grant left the White House, the NRA elected him as its eighth president.

Fact: After Grant's term, the NRA elected General Philip Sheridan, who had removed the governors of Texas and Lousiana for failure to suppress the KKK.

Fact: The affinity of NRA for enemies of the Klan is hardly surprising. The NRA was founded by former Union officers, and eight of its first ten presidents were Union veterans.

Fact: During the 1950s and 1960s, groups of blacks organized as NRA chapters in order to obtain surplus military rifles to fight off Klansmen.

How was that? Or is it more nitpicking?

change it YES.. discredit it..NO.

YES on both accounts. If you lie about the facts you base your message on, your message is shot to hell. For someone who claims to be so into the media and fact finding, you sure are eagerly turning a blind eye to some flat out deceitful tactics.

i'm interested in learning the truth but blanket statements are not constructive to the huge problems we face.

You were given speciffic examples and chose to ignore them.

moore put some accusations out there that can be hard to defend but i didn't and still don't see any outright lies.

Ya, well, its hard to see things when you willingly close your eyes to them.

how many lies does it take to discredit a film?

When its a documentary? One.

Honestly, you have no real principals, do you? You have no ideals, no morales, no real free thought. You are just towing a party line. Somebody is spewing things that fit your ticket and you fall for it hook line and sinker. Never mind what those pesky facts say.