[Brandon]

So you were just perusing his website, right? You didn't read about the quote and then follow a link there?

What the hell does that have to do with anything, Max?

Do you have trouble reading what I write? The part about suffering being suffering, the part about them hating us exactly the way we hate them? The part where I say the motivation makes no differnce to the dead and the suffering? Expected has nothing to do with it. Neither side gives a flying fuck about motivation, and why should they? Purety of motivtion brings no one back from the dead.

We hate who, Max? The common Iraqi? The insurgents?

That kind of makes you an 'ends justify the means' guy, Brandon. It also makes you pretty lucky. If you vote for W I sure hope the next war he starts is as serendipitous for you as this one. And as far as going to war over false pretenses goes, well, there may be serious long term repercussions and we may end up crusade, but hell, we toppled a tyrant. Even if that had nothing to do with it.

No, it just means that I'm not willing to call the war a total moral outrage because the administration acted unethically in lying about the reasons. I'm not purely "ends justify the means" because, like most people, I see moral issues as too complicated to be decided by one standard of ethics.

Why? I adressed yours. Traitor. My God. I'm not trying to bully you into any speciffic set of beliefs. I am trying to get you to examine your beliefs.

When did I make emotional appeals? Calling Michael Moore a traitor is not an emotional appeal.

That's a load of horseshit. I'll admit, I care somewhat more about suffering my tax dollars fund. You don't seem to care much about suffering we inflict as long as it balances out in the long run. We toppled a dictator! I'm so sorry we killed your kids, but hell, Sadaam probably would have done it if we hadn't, so it's no biggy. And what about the buckets of suffering we're fine with? Exactly how many people do we have to rack up in collateral damage (and remember, we're not counting) before you're no longer sure?

When did I say I didn't care about suffering? Or did you just assume that supporting a war means not giving a shit about collateral damage? But like I said before: leaving Saddam in power would have caused more suffering and death in the long run.