[davinxtk]

Damnit, Kelly, I had chosen to totally ignore that little blurb of Vinthian wisdom, but now I really feel the need to pay him a tiny rant.


Let's deconstruct the entire post while we're at it, because whenever I wake up and find myself in a school (which is happening more frequently) I think I should be doing a little critical thinking.

I love the logic that just because something bad happens due to American's involvement it automatically means we can't dislike/discredit/do anything about it.

Alright, to begin with, that's not what anybody said. Wait, strike that. That's 100% exactly what we said, but you're too confused to have noticed. Let me explain: Often times when something bad happens due to America's involvement in the politics of other countries, it is fed to the masses that the opposing country simply "hates America" and that we need to "do something about it." What we don't do often enough is take a look at ourselves, try and find concrete motivation behind another's actions, and fix the problem with diplomacy. The problem we're seeing, Vince, is that anyone who dislikes what America has done, discredits the people who are engaging in it, and tries to do anything about it (see, I used your words, this should be really easy for you to understand) they are called unpatriotic, or sympathizers, or anti-American. Does this make sense? And don't get defensive with me, because it won't help. Take a critical look at this country and try and say that we've always done right; that the only answer to these problems has to be that other countries "hate America" because we have "freedom." And think about how fucking absurd those statements are.

The real world is all about taking sides and defeating threats. Sometimes you have to team with evil to fight and defeat a greater evil. I'm suprised you don't bring up that we fought with the Communists in WWII.

Now, I have to thank you for handing me another juicy subject, and a clearly defined example to use in conversation.
The idea that the real world is all about taking sides and defeating threats is, as ziggy said, the mentality that has brought power to world leaders throughout human history. The difference we need to see now, however, is that with a world small enough to be devastated by only a handful of our most powerful weapons, we need to work together. The mentality of "us vs. them" needs to be worked out of global politics. I'm going to let that simmer while we talk about the red scare for a minute.
In WWII, without going into the various political and economical reasons it took us so long to get involved, we faught a common enemy with the USSR. Almost immediately afterwards, however, our governing and economic constructs became terribly afraid of what communism might mean, and did their best to villify the followers of Marx. Instead of focusing on the oppressive regimes that did exist in the post-WWII Sovet Union, we turned it again into an ideological war. We (and in fact much of the rest of the world) stopped trading with them entirely. As a result, their economy collapsed from the inside out over the course of a few decades.
Now, that "us vs. them" thing should be ready for our recipe.
If we hadn't brought the "us vs. them" mentality into our relations with the USSR, do you think it would have collapsed as quickly as it did? Or even at all?
If we had, instead of engaging in the cold war, engaged in peaceful supply and labor trades, in humanitarian efforts abroad instead of espionage, do you think we'd be dealing with the children of the cold war today?

You don't even have to respond to any of this, I just want you to think about it. If you want to reply, reply in a respectful manner. I'm not trying to start your umpteenth flame war, as amused as I am by Max; what I am trying to do is break down the "us vs. them" mentality in my own mind, and talk to you not as a political opponent but as a human being.
Because that's what we all need to see the world as. A collection of humans. People aren't their ideologies, they're not simply friends or enemies. They have goals, and the more we all work together the better the world is going to be.





someone call me a hippy or a fag or both really quick just to get it over with