[mburbank]

You're still unwilling to even begin to get at years dollars and lives. I agree with you on a lot, but until we can at least look at the reality it's all platitudes.

If things aren't better a year from now can we talk about leaving?
Probably not.

How about two years? Seven? Seventeen? Thirty? One hundred and fifty? Why is this undiscussable?

I'll tell you what, if this constitution gets voted on and passed by the people of Iraq, I'd certainly do some rethinking and say maybe we're helping. And if the next administration is WAY different than this one. That's a lot of ifs and I'm willing to admit their possability. How do so many people get away with saying anything is is 'unthinkable' and leave it at that? That's how we got hip deep in this bullshit. "Defeat is not an option". Swell, that means there are a whole lot of scenarios we absolutely refuse to think about. We were a nation with it's fingers in it's ears when we went into Iraq and we still are.

Why is it a forgone conclusion that Iraq would collapse if we left? Is it in the interests of the region to let that happen? And what about the rest of the world? If we said "Listen, we screwed this up, and we are so tainted we can't do anything but make things worse. We aplogize, we'll give folks money and technical support, but our military is going home." that the rest of the world would just sit there? You all accuse me of being arrogant 'cause I think the Iraqis can't do democracy (which I haven't said and which is a republican talking point made available for self hypnosis), how arrogant are all of you to say "No one on earth can be in charge of helping the Iraqis but us." We are so used to playing God we think of it as jes' plain bein' Amurican.

Just so you know, I am not advocating alll american troops leave tomorrow. I'm advocating an immidiate, actual plan to get us out as soon as possible. I'm advocating new strategies that actually work toward getting us out because if we don't make those plans, constitution or no the real power in Iraq will be us and they'll be a protectorate.