[KevinTheOmnivore]

Originally Posted by kahljorn

I didn't really say they were hypocrites for sinning, but sinning without true repentence. Remember, sinning without trying to change?

here we go again-- How do we know they don't truly repent? How do YOU know this????

I'm not damning anyone to hell or even claiming that they will be sent to a firey death, I don't believe in that shit anyhow. What I am saying is that there's a discernable level of how good someone is, and as far as the grand scale goes they are mostly average, and in this world average generally means "ON the bad side".

John 8:7? As far as i can discern, you're a condescending and moronic prick, but is that a fair assumption to make simply by encountering you on this message board and talking about Christ?

Do you think God would want you to accept his word(being spoken through a human beings mouth) without question? And not questioned in a bad way, just questioned so you can receieve the true answer from God or whatever silly shit you want to say. We all have a potential, and not living up to it is throwing away the gifts of God.

I don't disagree.

How do YOU have the right to measure and judge that potential??? The teachings in the Bible, particularly the teachings of Christ, tell you how to be a good Christian, and essentially how the whole deal works. It isn't a manual on how to condemn your fellow man. Once again, that is NOT your responsibility on this planet.

You can say you aren't doing that and that you don't believe in hell, but by saying most Christians aren't good Christians, then yes, you are in fact judging and condemning them.

Personal experience? Psychological knowledge? The idea that, 95% of the time they are doing "Me" things(Which isn't bad, you need some "Me" things or you'll shit your pants and simotaneously starve/dehydrate to death) makes me think that. The other times it's ON A WHIM or LACKING JUDGEMENT OR PRINCIPLE. They treat it like another me thing, "This way I'm assuring my admintance into heaven" or some other dilusion.
What I'm suggesting isn't attempted moments of "Christ-likeness" but everyday, every hour full of it. Even if it's just attempted, because attempts(generally speaking) lead to success, and in a case like this the successes will be frequent and grand for everyone, especially "Me". What better way to live for yourself..? I consider anything else perpetuating a sinful personality. In the same respect, living like christ is a perpetuating experience.

Look at the world's population. Then look at the % that considers itself to be Christian of some sort. Then look atthe overall total in America. Then look at the overall total in your state. Then look at the overall total that you actually know.

Would you say that this is a terribly fair sample for you to judge how good or bad most Christians are? Again, do you think it is your role as a "Christian" to decide that?

"John 8:7? "
I haven't thrown any stones, quite the contrary, I've been saying they don't deserve bad.

Huh? You have said that most Christians are bad Christians. You don't need to assault or accostthem to violate what Christ was teaching here.

God knows the worth of a human being. A person that you look at and may think is a great, shining example of a Christian might go home at night and get off to kiddie porn. Neither of us is in the position to make that judgement.

Put it this way, kevin: If everybody was living these ideals, then idealy the world would be ideal, correct? However, clearly these ideals aren't being lived, and that's why the world is not ideal.
That is all I need to know, really, and on a whole I haven't really noticed society changing much in the past few thousand years. That's another indication, to me, that religion isn't very religious along with most other social institutions.

This isn't what's taught in the Bible. The "church" structure is a device of people, sinners. God didn't invent religion, he merely left us the free well to follow him as we please, as long as we play by the rules.

The world will never be without sin, and Christians will never stop sinning. i think you're into the wrong religion.

How many people are so rich that they could help ALOT of people without it barely even scratching them that don't, or do for some kind of publicity or tax cut? I'm sure some people do, but I'm sure there's some that don't, too.
The bible pretty much calls money the base of all corruption for humanity, so you know. I could prolly find that verse if you want, too.

Money isn't always the bad guy in the Bible. What can make it bad is that the pursuit of it could replace God as your idol (and with it goes all that you said, how many were stepped on, harmed, etc.).

Many wealthy Christians do give until it hurts. You live in a country with the most charitable Christians on the planet. is their a quota mentioned somewhere in the Bible? Does God always side with labor and the poor in the Bible?

Many Christians don't give enough, and don't do enough. They certainly aren't a small number, but they can't be called the norm either.

In the end, the world is still a horrible place that hasn't changed much over the last 7,000 years or so of recorded history. There's still massive wars and corruption at every turn. Oppression still reigns supreme. If religion as a cultural device was there to develop culture, than it has failed horribly. This of course isn't without exception, but overall as far as the grand eye can see, since the christian religion has come into power the world has not become a better place.
As such, religion has failed to attain it's purpose, and the human beings engulfed by it have remained the same.

Find me the word religion in the Bible. How often does Christ use it? Is the Church supposed to be the UN? Christians do countless works around the globe, and spend millions and millions of dollars fighting disease, poverty, famine, and even war. You're saying that most Christians suck because we still have these things? That's ridiculous.

In Revelation, does God say "ok guys, once you're all perfect and the world is awesome I'm going to come down"?

The world will never be without sin. Everyone sins. You can say that people should try to sin less, and you'd be right, but you'd also be a terribly obvious jackass. If every person who called themselves Christian tried their best, there'd still be war, and famine, and poverty, and misery.

No, but it's God's job, and without recogizing why God would damn someone to hell you can't really help them, can you? I hope you're caught up. Ignorance won't help anyone.

You're a scumbag, I hope you know that. I'm certain you do.

You can tell them the Word, you can point them in the right direction, but you will never truly be able to know what's in their heart. you will also never truly be able to know their own fate comapred to yours.

Granted, you know some Christians in the small part of California you live in. That powerful factoid aside, you still can't make that judgement based off of mere perception. Nor is it your responsibility to do so.