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Originally Posted by mburbank
Kevin, I'd say Shiite death squads and (iraqi) state sanctioned torture and abduction were an indication that those trying to provoke civil war are gaining some ground.
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Are Siite death squads a product of our actions, or the product of a society which has never known freedom, democracy, transparency, and justice? Shiites do these things because it's what was done to them. We took care of the first problem by toppling the dictator who did that to them.
Fostering a respect for law and open government isn't something we can do with a bomb, and it's going to take a long time, a lot of money, and patience.
Max, it's gonna take time. A whole lot of precious time. It's gonna take money, a whole lot of
spending money, to do it, to do it, to do it, to do it, to do it, to do it right.
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Do you really think that all the bodies turning up daily killed by execution are victims of a single terrorist cadre fomenting civil war?
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No, but I also don't think that it's the opposite; some U.S./Shiite contrived conspiracy to knock off innocent people OMG GEGGY WAS RIGHT!!#@W sort of thing.
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What if it's, oh, I don't know, actual pro civil war factions in Iraq, like Sunnis who really do want a Suni dominated Iraq back and Shiites who really do want a Shiite dominated Iraq with a little revenge thrown in?
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I'm sure all of the above exists. But if you want to play the numbers game, compare that to the increasing turnout of Sunnis in the growing electoral process in Iraq. Compare it to the Sunni and Shiite leaders who came together to denounce the pathetic and cowardly attack in Samarra.
Meanwhile, these pro civil war factions
are being foiled by
Iraqi forces. For every small group of savages killing and kidnapping, their is an equal number of Iraqi men who want to serve and protect their country (not including the vast, silent majority that continues to turnout for elections).