[mburbank]

Kev, your post is far too loongt and I'm on vacation. I'll respond to two things. You can't concieve of a defense hawk who'd think Iraq caused more problems than it solved, and be hawkish on defense while wanting out of Iraq. I can. Iraq and defense are noy synonymous.

Also, I think it's very convenient that Iraq is nothing like Iraq unless you're looking at Democratic infighting, in which case it's iddentitical in every way, shape and form.

I think the Key difference between Iraq and Vietnam is that Vietnam, while ill advised, was an existing conflict, as opposed to a war of choice based on a policy of pre-emption.