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Originally Posted by mburbank

It isn't a mirror image. It isn't equation. We aren't the same people. Many of us are better than many of them. Our system of government is better than anything theirs has to offer. The vast majority of their evil doers are more evil in their doings than ours are.

Then please explain why it's even relevant to talk about Hiroshima? Why is it that when someone wants to talk about the bad things (in simple terms) that other people do, your response is always to talk about the bad things we do. As if we're not aware, or all the things you admit above in your quote don't apply? We're pretty aware of our nations own dirty laundry, and if we're not, you make about a half dozen posts reminding us. I'm afraid it doesn't really resolve the issue of Islamic world insanity. Your criticisms of the US do not address this particular topic in full, as it goes far beyond our own nations acitivity. Really! The article you're responding to addresses issues and concerns which have absolutely nothing to do with the United States. Care to tie the Theo Van Gogh incident into US policy, Mr. Chomsky?

But saying we aren't mirrors of each other doesn't mean that things we did and do play into and support things they do. If I beat the crap out of you and left you bleeding on the street, is the important thing that Mike Tyson is worse than me cuase I didn't rape you or bite off your ear?

The cause and effect argument doesn't address the issues when you're talking about the Atomic Bomb, or using Mike Tyson analogies. The Islamicist situation is 300 years in the making and it's muddy enough that taking some obtuse, sanitized approach isn't going to help us. Don't you think it's ridiculous that we can't discuss cliterectomies in Somalia without downplaying the religious element, or naming the religious parties in question...or that every topic has to come back to the bloated self obssessed Americans who think everything they do and say spins the world ? Even in the case of Darfur, finally being addressed on a large scale, nobody has the balls to admit this is yet another issue of Islamic supremacy in a genocidal context. I'm being very clear here. There are Islamic guerillas picking swords over guns and that speaks towards a certain insanity they possess...and it's not one which the United States or any of our policies ever created. In other words, our insanity?.....It's another topic altogether and where the two cross is not the root source to the problem or where the solution lies. What this and many articles is suggesting is that the first step towards a solution is having honest discourse to recognize what is in fact happening today. Can you do that?

Just because we didn't have anything to do with why some places are shitty doesn't mean we don't have anything to do with anyplace that's shitty.

They have no problems making places shitty on their own. Short of enforcing Shari'a laws and mass converting to Islam, there is nothing American's can do right. In their bizarro world, killing millions of Iraqis is about on par with producing hot pink boots and tempting them to sin when we distribute Whitney Houston cd's. Remember, your values and value of human life do not define theirs. That means you could list every bad thing our government is up to right now, figure out a way to magically erase it, and it still will not be enough. It's also why there isn't a country on our planet where these particular Muslims are content - not Switzerland, not their own, not a single one.

Your entire style of argument is what's wrong american discourse right now. Suppose I define your argument as "They are evil over there, so we can do anything we want to anybody pretty much anyhwere, anytime and it's not just okay, it's great." Well, I think anyone can see your argument is pretty stupid, plus it shows you are a very bad person and you want America to rule the world. It's an easy, stupid, childish way to argue, and since you're obviously reasonably intelligent, it's pretty cynical as well.

I'm sorry, but I believe our values are a little more grounded in humanity then there's, and that it's our duty as compassionate people to interject. I also believe that any true Muslim who follows the sane parts of the Koran and loves their own people would side with this argument rather then take a defensive approach where they feel their own beliefs are being attacked. There are plenty of opportunities for us Americans to evaluate ourselves, and how we conduct our politics, but that is neither here nor there. I don't believe anything we have done is responsible for a six year old being stoned to death in 2006, but even if I could wrap my head around your logic it would only fuel my passion to put an end to it.

In fact, it's been vogue for several years now to suggest that evenmentioning the fact the we do and have done bad things is the same as siding with terrorists.

Actually no. What's happening is people are condemning inhumane behavior, and people like yourself have decided they need to form a rebutal or at the very least create a response towards the accusations. Why? So of course the topic turns to wether you're defending the terrorists or what your point is. Really, I don't think your intention is to defend anyone - you just have an agenda, and you enjoy being a contrarian. Unfortunately, you shift the topic away from something others like myself consider as very important. As I've said, you can change the terms of the conversation, but the original problem still remains. In other words, if we want to talk about mid-east insanity, and you want to talk about American insanity - they're both valid topics, but they're not one in the same. We might both think the other is being superior, and dissmissive, but what is the topic here? Does it make you so uncomfortable that you need to change it to one which you can defend? So what's the flip....bringing Shari'a laws to the workplace in the US? Allowing women to appear in Burkas on their DMV license ? I don't believe you're saying we've created a monster that needs to be appeased before it eats us all...but what exactly are you saying? I'm afraid you're the one who needs to be clear here, because you're the one claiming your opinions are being missrepresented time and time again. Maybe it makes you feel better to purposely missrepresent mine in defense, but it doesn't clarify your point - especially when you've argued that moral equivalency is a-ok.

Do you truly believe in your heart that nothing we have ever done has impacted in any way whatsoever to the rise of Radical Muslim power?

Sure in the big scheme of things, our interaction as both allies, and enemy have played a role. Now do you want to talk about how an influential group of Muslims want to bring down Western Civilization, or what?