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KevinTheOmnivore KevinTheOmnivore is offline
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Old Jun 4th, 2003, 02:57 PM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by ItalianStereotype
the olympic bomber? that guy was as much of a nut as anyone can be.

for the common man, the crusades were entirely religious, but for the papacy it had more of a political bend. remember, at that time the kingdoms of Europe were only a few hundred years old and were still fragmented; the only strong kingdom, the Germanic empire, threatened the security of the papal seat.

the inquisition...i would consider that an internal problem of christianity, not so much a civil war, but more of a culmination of all the internal strife caused by seperationist protestants and, in spain's case, moors. while this does not excuse the spaniards for their actions, what they did should not be held against the other christian kingdoms of europe. spain at this time was THE christian fanatic of the world as well as one of the most powerful countries in Europe. it is difficult to say "no" to a country that could easily exterminate your entire culture. this is also partially the reason for the 30 years war. besides, islam at this time had grown somewhat...sadistic. i mean, look at the janissaries...

overall, this war is far too complex to simply be called a religious war. under the augsburg settlement of 1555, lutheranism was granted official recognition within the bounds of the HRE, the catholic church permanently lost lands seized by secular lords, and German princes could force their religion onto their subjects. after the peace was signed, however, many princes converted to Calvinism, legally putting them outside the terms of the agreement. when said princes continued encroaching on legally Catholic lands, small alliances were formed to protect catholic claims. at the same time, the austrians and the bohemians began a series of escalations that eventually led to open conflict and an anti -habsburg alliance that drew spain into the war. spain, looking to reclaim the power that it had been steadily losing since the end of the 16th century, invaded the lower Palatinate (whose king had also been crowned king of Bohemia, so it all works out) in order to unite its Dutch provinces with its northern italian holdings. this brought the french, the danes, and almost drew the english into the war. when habsburg forces claimed mecklemburg, gustavus adolphus of sweden invaded northern germany out of fear of habsburg dominance of the baltic. by the time westphalia was signed, the war was almost entirely secular.

so anyway, i might have rambled on there a bit...
Eye Tie, I realize the examples I mentioned have political and economic undertones to them, but that was kind of my point. The things I cited can't be used against Christianity per se b/c of some of the examples you mentioned above. However, if a muslim uses a slanted perspective on his own religion to eliminate a political, social, or geographic enemy, the same rules don't suddenly apply?

The 30 Years War is a good example. Like you said, the religious "theme" guised many other issues, and in fact, if I'm correct, France often flip flopped on faiths in order to position themselves better against Spain and the Habsburghs. Doesn't the Islamic faith, and all atrocities commited in "its" name, deserve the same historical scrutiny?
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