Thread: WikiLeaks
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Pentegarn Pentegarn is offline
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Old Dec 11th, 2010, 09:21 AM       
You are young Zhukov, one day when you get older, you will understand the concept of the greater good, as opposed to the idealistic and unrealistic view you take on the world.

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Originally Posted by Zhukov View Post
How is starting a website that allows whistle-blowers a safe way to get their information out to the public considered 'espionage'? Firstly, it's not spies that are stealing the classified documents, it's members of the government or military that are speaking out and have access to any documents anyway. Second, it's not wikileaks that is doing this, as has been said before.
Firstly, you don't have to be an official spy and put that down on your w2 to commit espionage. If you are guilty of it you are guilty of it. trying to paint what they are doing as something else doesn't change what it is. Mob bosses don't commit most of the murders that are done on their behalf, but they are still responsible for said murders. The same is true here.

Which brings me to this; these things on Wikileaks, they aren't wikileaks' responsibility? Had wikileaks never been invented these things would never have been posted. Actions have consequence, as I have repeatedly said. You want these whistle blowees to take responsibility for what they wrought, yet you dismiss wikileaks' hand in the issues that will come as a result.

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Originally Posted by Zhukov View Post
Assange hasn't created an international online spy ring to steal military secrets. All wikileaks is is an avenue for whistle-blowers to get their information out there. You have to understand that before you can judge it.
An accessory is an accessory, hemming and hawing about it changes nothing, trying to put a positive spin on it does not undo the damage it will cause, you have to realize this before you can defend it.

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Originally Posted by Zhukov View Post
Now, the reason why the leaked information hasn't been put through the standard media avenues is probably because they can't be trusted. I wouldn't trust most news stations or papers, so I can understand if someone would rather go through a website that has been created for that purpose, and isn't run by people with vested interests in government for whatever reasons.
The media has issues, but individuals are the solution. Be a journalist of integrity and report the things properly without bias. But this has to be tempered with wisdom

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Originally Posted by Zhukov View Post
The argument that he has created the website with the intention to become famous is just ridiculous. It has been running for years, and he's only in the papers recently. Nobody has heard of anyone else that runs wikileaks; are they in it for fame too?
His actions support my view. Perhaps these others are just smart enough to know anonymity is their only protection from what is to come. In other words, maybe only Assange was moronic enough to stick his head up and have his look at me moment.

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Originally Posted by Zhukov View Post
I honestly can't fathom why you think that after a term of 4 years a person is immune to criticism, or perhaps even a garbled version of justice.
I honestly can't fathom how you took that out of what I said. I said you can't punish current leaders for the actions of past leaders, it is a ridiculous concept. Why not make Jeffery Dahmer's relatives go to jail since he died and before serving his sentence while you are at it? What I actually said is there would not likely be anything done about it. There are a myriad of reasons for this. At best you would get a trial where high priced lawyers would get the people off on a technicality. The UN is smart enough (I think) to know if they try to push some sort of world trial on the US that the US (the primary financial contributor and most charitable of the UN nations by the way) would simply withdraw from the UN.


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Originally Posted by Zhukov View Post
So you ARE saying that gassing Kurds and torturing civilians should have been kept classified? Best that nobody found out?
Not at all, I said look at the result. If that is what you took from doing so then the question I think should be is that what YOU are saying?

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Originally Posted by Zhukov View Post
Ok, results. You are worried that so many horrible things will be uncovered by wikileaks about the US government that the rest of the world will have to do something. You're worried that that 'something' would hinder your life or many other US citizens lives. I don't want to have to say it, but fuck - what if nobody found out about the holocaust? Best to leave that sort of thing under wraps, because it being made public knowledge would probably cause repercussions on normal German citizens. Yeah, it's the holocaust, I used it as an example, sue me. But this is your argument; keep things secret, possibly horrible things (especially the horrible things), because if people found out there would be trouble. If this is your argument then I think I am done here.
Let me ask you this, what good does hurting the innocent for crimes committed by the guilty do?
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