Thread: WikiLeaks
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Old Dec 8th, 2010, 06:04 PM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zhukov View Post
Information that should never be made public. Is there really ever such a thing?
Military secrets. Telling the world where a government is placing troops is doing just that, of course you hate America so I am not even going to try and persuade you why this is wrong to do to any country, but I will ask you to tell me how you would feel if it were done to say, China, or Cuba?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zhukov View Post
Is there some truth out there that SHOULD be kept secret so that nobody will ever find out, ever, lest it endanger human kind somehow? So far, no. Everything put through wikileaks are things that the public should know about their governments. The torture of people, the use of banned weapons on civilians, the war talk, and plotting to topple democratically elected governments.... people should know these truths, then they can decide if they want those sort of things to go on in the world. If you want to argue that plotting to attack Iran should be secret from IRAN lest they strike first and kill people etc etc.... do you really think Iran isn't planning war against the US as well?
So then why isn't he doing the same thing to other countries? Why only the US? Until he does, this counterargument comes off as empty.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zhukov View Post
"Lives are at stake" is something that I have heard several times on the news; but I haven't heard how they are a stake, whose lives and why. Weigh it up: which is more likely, that your government doesn't want people knowing about human rights abuses and shady political bullshit.... or that they are concerned people will get hurt as a result of people finding out about Israel bombing people with phosphorus artillery....?
Again, until I see him do this to other countries besides the US, I have to assume this is an anti American act of cyber-terrorism, and defending it comes off as just anti American sour grapes. If you want to defend what he did because you hate America, be a man and say so. But don't pretend to be altruistic about it when this is a single target expose and when we all know much worse human rights violations are going on unexposed in many other countries (North Korea anyone?)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zhukov View Post
It's not terrorism to break the news to the world that there is sort of shit going on. Don't shoot the messenger.
But it is terrorism to threaten to drop more information as he keeps repeatedly doing. If he was as altruistic as you you are now implying, why not drop it all? Why this slow leak? Could it be he wants to hit the snooze alarm repeatedly on his 15 minutes of fame? Seems that way to me, and his actions support this view

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zhukov View Post
Oh, and I've read nothing about him that would suggest he is an anarchist. If he was then I would have more respect for him than now.
I judge a man by his actions, and to me his actions are those of an anarchist

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zhukov View Post
You're saying that Julian Assange is stealing people's identities, and has no respect for privacy rights?
I compared his hacking to another group who hacks and steals information for personal gain. His personal gain is fame, theirs is money, neither are doing it for selfless reasons.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zhukov View Post
Who's privacy rights? A government should have no right to privacy, and should be open to the people it claims to defend and serve. I don't want to sound like a conspiracy theorist, but if it has THESE secrets that we now know about, what else isn't your government (and mine, and his, and hers) telling you?
Classified information is classified for a reason. You act like the US is the first country in the universe to ever have secrets. I am willing to bet the USSR has stories that would make your skin crawl with things they did that violated human rights.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zhukov View Post
I think Assange was charged with some cyber hacking in his yoof, which you may be referring to, but that's not what he is doing now. He's not hacking government websites to steal info, he is offering a medium for whistle-blowers to get their stuff out there. Isn't some US private still being held in prison without trial over being a whistle-blower on Abu-Gahrib prisoner abuses, or something along those lines? You punish the person that speaks up about abuse and torture, but not the torturers. Nice.


Which victims? The US government? Several governments have been forced to address facts about their actions. Things which should ALWAYS be under public scrutiny. If you know of any human victims, then let me know.
This one is easy to address, if he is whistle blowing military secrets (like exposing where US stations troops) then we are compromised strategically, which can lead to a diminished military, which can in turn lead to another attack on US soil. I personally have seen enough of that for one lifetime and do not want to tempt other groups to attack us because our military has been compromised.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zhukov View Post
Alternate means to justice. Nice. I doubt he will end up dead any time soon, although I'm not writing it off completely, but you really think he doesn't deserve a trial in his OWN country? This is a really horrible thing about today; your government tells you that they are terrorists, and since they are terrorists they don't deserve the right to prove otherwise. You think that lies should be told to fight him, and that any means should be used to stop him, that's a reall.... ah, it just hit me, am I being.... trolled?
Don't you think to get a trial in your country you should commit crimes against that country instead of another one? If you don't want to be on trial in the US try this simple tip; don't commit crimes against the US

That's like saying a woman who gets raped in America by a foreigner has no rights to justice because the rapist was from another country. You just think he should avoid the US justice system because it was a crime against an entity you clearly dislike
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