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Old Jun 9th, 2003, 12:02 PM       
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you are wrong when you say that most Europeans didn't give a shit about the Holy Land. the Holy Land was the sole focus of more than a majority of the Crusaders, they weren't involved for economic gain or the glory of their king.
All right, "not giving a shit" may have been an exaggeration, but you can bet that most people had absolutely no clue about the goings-on in the region, other than the fact that the area existed somewhere to the east. Don't forget, practically the entire population was completely illiterate.

Economic gain was a big driving force behind the Christian armies, or at least, it was a huge incentive. Who do you think the Crusaders were composed of? Certainly not the lords of the land, and not their eldest sons who were already assured of a fat inheritance. Many of the younger sons who would never have a hope of controlling the land themselves saw an opportunity to get estates of their own out of the massive areas of land that they would be "liberating."

Quote:
also, by "free-for-all" and "general fuck up" do you mean the Christian states that were established in the Holy Lands that would last until the 14th century?
The whole idea behind setting up a separate state with yourself as its ruler after you conquer it is economic gain. Sure, you can convert them all to Christianity at the same time, and that'll probably make it easier to convince them to pay you as well. Besides, all your Crusader states that lasted that long weren't exactly in the heart of Muslim controlled areas like you're making it sound.

By free-for-all I mean the Crusaders massacring regular peasants (including many Christians living in the area), kicking major ass and in turn, having their asses kicked repeatedly.

By general fuck-up, I mean the fact that they all failed for the most part. Yeah, there were a few forts built that lasted for a couple centuries, but the Muslims still occupied the Holy Land, so in the end the Crusades proved only that dumb people could run around in the desert while wearing armor. The first Crusade mildly succeeded only because the Muslims were in the middle of a civil war and couldn't get their shit together to repel invaders.

A whole other complicated mess of events eventually led the Byzantines and Westerners into to fighting each other. How is that not a fuck-up when allies start fighting each other? Look at the mess the last Crusade turned into; it accomplished next to nothing.

I'm not saying the Crusades were useless. They did a lot for Europe by facilitating the introduction (and in some cases, reintroduction) of many commodities and ideas that paved the way for the Renaissance. Did you know that the Muslims were big fans of the Greeks and Romans and were responsible for the survival of many of the classics? No Muslims, no Renaissance.
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