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Old Dec 18th, 2007, 07:53 PM       
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But I think some people would say that to believe in such a pattern for the universe requires one to believe that it has been in some sense laid out by God, or that belief in such a pattern is the essential characteristic of belief in God in any case. I mean, if you believe the universe has some kind of inherently ordered pattern, that's kind of the same thing as believing that there is a God laying out a pattern.
that's probably because you think the universe can have no order without a god personally constructing it but obviously there is some type of order, even if it is just one of causality. But who knows; although, you can say with certainty that if there isn't a god, and there is morality, then there must be morality without god.
All I'm really saying is that an atheist person could do an action, recognize the results and attach a value to that action and result. And then have a value system designed to achieve certain results which they value.

I like to think of God more as a variable to explain things than necessarily as a guy in the sky who dictates things out of his consciousness.
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