Haiti, Bush, Next Big Mess

[mburbank]

Bush Urges International Forces in Haiti
By DEB RIECHMANN, Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON - President Bush said Wednesday that the United States is encouraging the international community to provide a strong "security presence" in Haiti as America and its allies continue to try to achieve a political solution to the island nation's escalating violence.


Bush said the United States was discussing such a security presence at the moment, but he provided no details.

Bush said he has been closely consulting with Secretary of State Colin Powell in an effort to reach an accord between Haitian President Jean-Bertrand Aristide and rebels who have seized control of large parts of Haiti.

"We will have a robust presence with an effective strategy," Bush told reporters following an Oval Office meeting with the president of Georgia.





I think it might be a little too late for either of those things. Why exactly would the rebels concider accepting a negotiated peace now, having gotten almost to Aristides door? They might have a few weeks ago, but now? And if they don't accept it, what do we propose to do?

Are we even clear who's side w'ere on? Aristide is hugely corrupt, has failed in every way, but is also a democratically elected leader. If we end up firing on the rebels and protecting Aristide, where does that put us visa vis Chavez, another democratically elected leader who the United states absolutely wants out.

Our armed forces are spread pretty thin. Whay tardstick are we going to use to determine which regimes we're going to change and when?

[mesobe]

Bush is up to something again.

[Perndog]

"tardstick"

[mburbank]

And not just any tardstick, either. 'Whay' tardstick.

As in "That is whay tardstick, dude."

[mesobe]

well, it looks like big brother is doing a bang up job!

"they dont suspect a thing!"

[kellychaos]

My last carribean vacation included a nice stay in Haiti while the U.S. forces oversaw the peaceable substitution of a maniacal militant dictator with the previously exiled Aristid. He was supposed to be the good guy and the Haitian nationals were literally dancing in the street during his re-inauguration into office. Deja vu all over again?

[Ronnie Raygun]

THIS IS ALL A PART OF BUSH'S EVIL PLOT TO TAKE OVER THE WORLD!!!!!!

[KevinTheOmnivore]

THIS IS ALL A PART OF RONNIE'S DETERMINATION TO NEVER DISCUSS SUBSTANCE!!! RONNIE, WHERE ARE YOUR POM-POMS?????????

[DamnthatDavid]

Last time I checked, we sent troops down there only to protect our embassy. Which has had a couple of rocks thrown at it so far.

The numbers are small, and no word has been mentioned to the press about an Military Action. And no rumors flying from the local base about any possible military action.

[Zhukov]

I'd never thought as Aristide as very progressive... no matter how left wing the US might think he is, hebrely passes as a reformist in my eyes. But the rebels are obviously much worse. Theyare former death squad and military leaders from the disbanded army, they were formerly called "the Cannibals" and are now renamed the Gonaives Resistance Front aftr taking the city f Gonaives and declarng an indipendant nation. No really, they did.

The GRF are headed by Buter Metayer, who was a former Aristide supporter.

The mainstream opposition, including groups such as the Group of 184 and the Convergence Democratique have distanced themselves from the GRF as of late, but were previously encouraging them as they felt they could come to power on the back of a coup against Aristide.

Aristides government only has a police force of about 4000, and are out gunned by the paramilitaries.

"We have machetes and guns, and we will resist. The police might have been scared, but the people got together and organized…We blocked the streets."

-Pierre Frandley tells the Associated Press 02/20/2004


A successful coup would obviously be a nightmare for the Haitian people, as the old paramilitaries who instated a murderous regime in the early 1990s would exact a terrible revenge upon Aristide, his supporters, and the Haitian workers and urban poor.

I think the US will wait until Aristde is overthrown and then step in to supress the rebels (who are the major minority btw) and install someone more right wing than Aristide. Whoever takes power, you can bet that they will speak French.

[mburbank]

"We will have a robust presence with an effective strategy,"

I just found out W was talking about defending america from Hatian refugees running away from being chopped to bits by crazy people with Machettes. Thank GOD this caring, compassionate christian leader can be counted on to have his priorities straight.

[kellychaos]

When I was down there and they put Aristid back into power, all those powerful military rebels escaped into the Dominican Republic (or perhaps hid in the mountains) and Aristid resumed his position with barely a skirmish with U.S. troops ... and most of those incidents involved the advance troops (i.e. special forces). We used a division (+) and it amounted to a humanitarian mission more than anything else.

[davinxtk]

Excuse me for being ignorant here, but why can't we just stay the fuck out of another country's business?

They're in the middle of a revolution.
Wouldn't we have been pissed if someone had fucked with our revolution?

This isn't some sort of holocaust or ethnic cleansing. There's no evil Baath-esque regime that needs toppling in Haiti, just a revolution.
Why does America need to get involved?
We're playing bully on the playground here, and I'm sick of it.

[Zhukov]

They're in the middle of a revolution.

You fucking idiot, how on earth is it a revolution? The people are against it. COUP! COUP!

[davinxtk]

Are the people against it?
Do you live in Haiti?


Stop trusting everything you hear on the news.
Didn't they tell us that 60% of America favored war in Iraq?

[Matt Harty]

Originally Posted by davinxtk

Excuse me for being ignorant here

[davinxtk]

Catbread?


You actually still post here?

[Zhukov]

Stop trusting everything you hear on the news.

Sorry, I guess I just believe everything I hear on TV. Perhaps I should think outside the circle of the status quo and see what other ideas there are. Whenever I hear something said on the news, I take it as fact, when really I should be more wary of whatever is said.

I don't live in Haiti, but what are you doing to furhter the revolution there? Are you for, or against the rebels? Have they taken over your town or city yet? Are they close?

It's a conflict between different sections of the ruling class. I don't know why the US should be overtly happy/sad about it, and so far I haven't seen anything to say that they are.

Whatever support it might get from the desperate, it's not a revolution but a coup. You are obviously confusing violent changes of government with revolution.

Your "revolutionaries" are capitalist/criminal funded armed gangs who are fighting for governmental power. There might be a coup (and most probably a reactionary one), but no revolution.

Wouldn't we have been pissed if someone had fucked with our revolution?

Didn't the French get involved?

[davinxtk]

The French?
Are you actually considering them a mentionable part of any wartime activity, spare the Maquis?

I've heard what's going on in Haiti referred to as a revolution.
Maybe I've heard wrong.

[Pub Lover]

Davin's talking too much. Quick someone, get a mirror!

[davinxtk]

For real.

[The One and Only...]

What are you talking about, Davin? We only won the war because of the French.

I would be a lot more willing to dump troops in Haiti than what we did to Iraq. We may not be able to support successful coups, but we surely crush them.

I doubt it would hurt America's security very badly... these guys don't sound like they have an extensive amount of resources at their disposal, and they don't sound crazy enough to do suicidal things.

Still, we should refrain from making a permanent military presence there.

[davinxtk]

Raise your hand if you see involvement without a maintained presence as an actual possibility.

[Big Papa Goat]

raise your hands if you think davin knows what he's talking about

[DamnthatDavid]

What are you talking about, Davin? We only won the war because of the French.

What war do you speak of? Ain't you Canadian?

The American Revolution?
bah, we would of won, just would of taken longer.

World War 1?
I thought the french women would of appreciated some real war winning men.

World War 2?
The only thing they contributed to the war was all those nice little white flags that the Germans used after the French where finished with them.

All other conflicts?
Oi? The only time France has ever won any war was when they served under a Peasent Girl with visions, and a short man from Corsica.