How bad is the Hammas victory?

[Abcdxxxx]

Seriously...why are you even entering the conversation, let alone acting like a patronizing douche, if you can't keep up?

"So let's be clear. Are you saying the Jews in Gaza are a bunch of terrorists in the making?"

There are no Israelis in Gaza. Olmert was talking about a group called the Hilltop Youth, who are a religious radical group, of fairly young kids, who might have watched Red Dawn one too many times. Israel's Kadima party (which includes Olmert) would like to paint all the settlers in the same light as these kids. We're not talking about Gaza anymore. Gaza is completely Palestinian controlled. Understand, there is a political climate in Israel where the secular have turned their backs on anything viewed as religious. Sharon, and now Olmert are capitilizing on that so they can carry out the expulsion of Jews from the disputed territories.


"Is how they got there irrelevant?"

Sure it's relevant. What are you really askin?

"Is this violence primarily Settlers against IDF? Does "pulled the IDF" mean the army retreated cuz it was getting too violent?"

Right, the IDF is attempting to evacuate Jews from small villages living in "outposts" which the government has deemed illegal. They're being met with resistance. From what I gather, the army retreated when one of their radios got swiped, and they lost tactical ground controlling the riots. You have to understand, the protest opposition they're facing comes from Israel's citizens, most of whom have undergone military training. The clash is between Jews. Arabs, and others continue to build "outposts" of their own in these towns, without recourse. I understand these stories aren't making it into US media...which is why I posted about it.

"What makes you think they cannot get bulldozers out there? "

The geography? We're talking tiny mountain regions, and narrow roads.

"Does the IDF Bulldozer Brigade just not have the funds it did 2 years ago - no wait, they're disbanded aren't they? I guess it would be a lot cheaper to just go in and kick asses, huh? "

See, I think you're trying to make some kind of biting statement. Try making an informed one next time. They bulldozed all the Jewish homes in Gaza just fine.

"The government of Israel has made plenty of mistakes which have contributed to the hatred and antisemitism in that region. If that's one-dimensional "moral equivalency" then fine, call me a one-dimensional moral equivalist! Oh boo hoo, whatever shall I do. "

Israel has made plenty of mistakes, but to say it contributes to hatred against Jews in that region is pretty ignorant of the historical timeline for the conflict. They disliked Jews before Israel even existed. Israel doesn't have to do much to provoke hatred...unless you credit Israel's right to exist as a provocation in itself.


"It seems to me however, that a blatant refusal to ever assign any fault to the Israeli government is a MUCH more one dimensional attitude. "

I assign plenty of fault to Israel. Ready? I'll list some mistakes they made:

- Giving land to Palestinians without a treaty instead of it's previous owners, Egypt, and Jordan.
- Negotiating with the PLO, and legitamizing Arafat, sponsoring their return.
- Demolishing productive communities in Gaza, leaving 9,000 Jews homeless, and 11,000 Palestinians unemployed.
- Building settlements in Gaza, when the land should have remained a buffer zone.
- Pandering to Egypt, and tearing down refugee housing in the Sinai.