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Perndog · #26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brandon

First of all, not everyone who opposes gay marriage is a fundamentalist.

And, to be honest, I do think semantics is a sticking point. People seem to be much more tolerant of the idea of "civil unions," but feel defining "marriage" as anything other than one man and one woman will somehow cheapen the institution.

Once again, I'm not denying that homophobia was a motivator for many -- I just feel it's inappropriate to assume that everyone who opposed gay marriage is some kind of bigot.

Not explicitly. But...well, yes, they are.

Because if it really, truly, HONESTLY were about the "sanctity of marriage," two things would have MILES of precedence over keeping gays from getting married.

1) Adultery would be criminalized. The Bible has more passages about adultery than about homosexuality.

2) Legal divorces would cease. Jesus himself said, in at least one of the Gospels, that divorce is a sin and all divorcees who remarry are adulterers. See point 1.

But shucks, anyone can slip up with that pretty neighbor lady, and plenty of normal people just pick the wrong hubby the first two or three times! We can't have adultery or divorce be illegal, that would just mess people up!

But only freaks would have sex with their own gender, though, and we gotta put a stop to that!

Seriously. If you strip away the self-deceit and don't read scripture selectively, that last paragraph is all they've got.

Perndog · #27

And if you're talking about it in a secular sense, the argument about divorce and adultery still applies. Marriage looks dumber when people get married for a week and then split than when two guys are allowed to hook up.

Not to mention "one man, one woman" sounds like an awfully Christian idea to me, whether or not the people who say it *know* that they're speaking for religious values.

Immortal Goat · #28

Well said, Pern, and my point exactly. Keeping rights away from certain groups is always bigoted, no matter the reasoning behind it.

Brandon · #29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Perndog

Because if it really, truly, HONESTLY were about the "sanctity of marriage," two things would have MILES of precedence over keeping gays from getting married.

Adultery and divorce do not redefine the entire institution of marriage. Gay marriage would. Which is more radical in your view?

I've gone on record as a gay marriage supporter, BTW, so don't flame me, people.

Perndog · #30

Divorce DOES redefine the institution.

Marriage is a permanent thing.

Or do they not include the bit about "til death do us part" in the *sacred vows* at wedding ceremonies anymore?

Ant10708 · #31

Gay marriage should be permitted as long as religious instituions are not forced to allow it in their buildings.

America was built on compromises why can't we just call it civil unions but with all the tax benefits of marriage? Wouldn't that make everyone happy?

Ant10708 · #32

Anyways I'm in favor of allowing gays to marry. My uncle has been performing civil unions at his catering service for years(which as far as I can tell was a normal wedding without the legal rights) and it hasn't destroyed the world yet.

Spectre X · #33

Gay marriage has been legal here in the Netherlands and we still haven't been bombarded with fire and brimstone from the sky.

Emu · #34

Yeah, but what about the dreaded organizations of gaiety dedicated to turning all of our children into flaming queens that everyone over here is so scared of?

Spectre X · #35

Gay people barely get into the media here.

Why? Because they act like everybody else acts here.

Methuselah · #36

Well if you ask me God is alive just not as up front as he used to be. I for one do not follow any religon because all of them have too many holes and rules that are just plain stupid. I think God knows that Catholics and Christans are fucking up things just as much as radical Islams are. Just like the word 'love' we throw around 'in the name of God' far too loosly. We need to step back and ask ourselves if God would really want us to be doing this. Intilligence is useless when wisdom is needed.

Emu · #37

That's why I worship Cthulhu. ;<

Ant10708 · #38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spectre X

Gay people barely get into the media here.

Why? Because they act like everybody else acts here.

Over here they have parades where they purposefully act as different as possible from everybody else.

davinxtk · #39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ant10708

Gay marriage should be permitted as long as religious instituions are not forced to allow it in their buildings.

America was built on compromises why can't we just call it civil unions but with all the tax benefits of marriage? Wouldn't that make everyone happy?

The compromise here would be to call every single legal marriage a "civil union," which I think is the best option anyway, and let the church sort out the rest of the "sanctity" and "til death do us part" garbage. It's a stupid argument any way you look at it, though, because people are just people.

Oh, and taxes aren't the only benefits people are looking at. Next-of-kin rights, survivors benefits and estate/inheritance rights/taxes are as well important. Everything that legally comes with marriage.

adept_ninja · #40

Quote:

We accepted immigrants from all over. Not any longer. Due to bigotry and fear, we have closed our borders, and worse, made other countries hate us so much that people don't want to come here anyway.

No sir I would have to say you are wrong. We havent "closed" our boarders. The immigrants now have it much easier then the ones in the past. For example the irish after the potato famin. Also the vietnamese after the veitnam war. We have always been bigoted you have just never noticed till now.
(no im not a bush supporter just proving a point)

Emu · #41

The Vietnamese were REFUGEES, not immigrants. There's a difference.

adept_ninja · #42

I stand corrected

Command Prompt · #43

There is no proof that God is dead, or alive
Many people belive in God
Belief in God would requires faith, since there is no proof
Having faith in god means that God exists to you
If God exists to you, then he cannot be dead
Being dead would undermine the usefulness of being God

Therefore god is not dead

There you go fags, case closed.

dreaddi · #44

I don't believe in God/Christianity myself, but what you wrote reminds me of this concept called Deus Absconditus, which means invisible God... it's a modern way of thinking really, but it was actually already talked about in the old testament. It just means that God exists but he is really far away, so that he watches everything that's going on, but doesn't do anything about it. Or something like that. So I guess, in that case, he might as well be dead.

Immortal Goat · #45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Command Prompt

There is no proof that God is dead, or alive
Many people belive in God
Belief in God would requires faith, since there is no proof
Having faith in god means that God exists to you
If God exists to you, then he cannot be dead
Being dead would undermine the usefulness of being God

Therefore god is not dead

There you go fags, case closed.

Wrong. I can have a mental delusion that makes me think JFK always follows me around and is my best friend. Doesn't make him any less dead, now does it? And I was making a metaphor. I was talking about the hipocracy of the religious right. There may or may not be a God, but those who believe most strongly in that God seem to be the ones who have lost touch with It the most.

Helm · #46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Command Prompt

There is no proof that God is dead, or alive
Many people belive in God
Belief in God would requires faith, since there is no proof
Having faith in god means that God exists to you
If God exists to you, then he cannot be dead
Being dead would undermine the usefulness of being God

Therefore god is not dead

There you go fags, case closed.

I just can see the weakling chemically inbalanced neurons of yours straining for all they're worth trying to fire. Good job.

Command Prompt · #47

Good one. Do you do jokes for Conan O'brian?

Command Prompt · #48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Immortal Goat

There may or may not be a God, but those who believe most strongly in that God seem to be the ones who have lost touch with It the most.

Huh?

Immortal Goat · #49

I am saying that those who most strongly profess their faith in their God seem to be doing more that supposedly angers It than those who do not believe. Dipshit.