Happiness in the modern world

[Helm]

animals probably do not 'know' in the sense a human knows and that's a really misleading argument that doesn't add to the discussion at hand. The Lemmings weren't 'knowing' that they were killing themselves, at any rate.

spinster: I'm not sure if Spinoza uses dualist foundations in his reasoning, but it would make sense if you think of the rest of his work. I am not a dualist, and therefore this discussion becomes even more complicated from my point of view because external and internal stimuli are much more difficult to seperate.

I think the argument at hand, although interesting to debate, can and will eventually be broken down to scemantic debates over the uncertain terms used, and therefore will end in stalemate while we throw our hands into the air in the collected frustration that discussing linguistics and epistemology usually brings.