Thank God this doesn't apply to the Catholic Church!

[KevinTheOmnivore]

Originally Posted by kahljorn

Didn't you, in one of your previous posts, say christians admit they and everyone are sinful? Jesus.

Yes, but it was in response to this "hypocricy" nonsense that gets thrown around.

However, I do believe at least a strive for your full potential isn't something to complain about. Do you?

I'm not saying people shouldn't strive for it. I'm also not saying that people can be bad Christians. I am however saying that it isn't my job, nor is it yours, to pass that judgement.

If you want to rip on people who do contradict the word of God and then go and judge others, I'm all for it. Pointing out hypocricy isn't a bad thing. Saying that "most" Christians are bad Christians because they mess up sometimes is a whole other thing, and it's wrong.

"WHAT!!? WHAT THE HELL DOES IT EXPRESS!!??? "

That the grace of God comes through attempting to make yourself a better person, like christ, who's personality and lifestyle are at least on a path that attempts to avoid sin(This can be HARD), rather than just floating along doing whatever, actually THINKING ABOUT IT, and attempting to change. Try that, for once. Remember, repentence means Seeking CONTRITION.

Something you are terribly unqualified to assess. Again-- how do you TRULY know that people who contradict God, or who sin and then ask for forgiveness, are doing so in an "arbitrary" fashion? Who are you, the sinner, to make that judgement?

It's plain to my eyes that they aren't good christians if they aren't at least trying not to sin. Again, that's what REPENTANCE is. And again, I know ALOT OF THEM try, at the very least, which I think is noble enough not to deserve hell. But does it deserve heaven?

John 8:7?

How can god forgive you if you don't honestly ask for forgiveness? Wanting forgiveness means you DIDNT WANT TO DO IT and you WONT DO IT AGAIN which demands, inherently, some kind of CHANGE.

And what has helped yu determind that a majority of Christians don't do this? I think this is what I'm truly tryingto get at.

"Who can be a perfected image of Christ, Kahl?"

Christ, ezekial, Isiah, Esther.. um.. Osiris, balder... I don't expect every human being to be jesus christ, but to at least try. Who knows, then it may become possible to become jesus christ if enough people tried to be decent.

none of them were Christ, but anyway....

I think you are right about the pursuit of Christ-like behavior. You are wrong however about the way "most" Christians fail to meet that challenge.

"People who believe in christianity are more likely to be hypocrites" "people who believe in christianity are more likely to not live to their own standards"
"People who believe in christianity are more likely to feel that everything they do is okay because they have God's forgiveness"
lol, hey, as long as we have god's forgiveness in the end let's go kill some people with that in mind God will love us for that.

But what's your proof? My argument is that there is no bulk of good and bad Christians. There are Christians trying to follow the word of God, yet still failing to reach that goal every single day.

Your argument is that most are hypocrites and don't care. Both views are based off of personal experience and assumptions, but i think yours is a much tougher sell.

"What about Matthew 25: 14-30? "

That's a story about using what's given to you if I remember right.

Yes, it's a parable about using your GOD GIVEN talent in order to achieve. But the parable is appropriate because it also highlights the absurdity in looking at a wealthy person today and saying that they are by default going to hell.

Some Christians have used this very story to argue that God wants you to work hard and do well in life. After all, if you were really smart and did really well in life and made lots of money, it's all because of God, isn't it? How could he then send you to hell for that?

I know the wealthy weren't the focus of your point, but they seem like the most likely example, because I think every bad Christian to you is an old, white man living in Georgia somewhere.

The fact that every once in a while even bad people try to be good means nothing.

God set the standards for us to follow, not to use against each other. This is often the problem with the Jerry Falwell types, and it's the problem with what you're saying right now.

The reason Conservatives go after gays is not because they want those gays to know they're going to hell.....they've already heardthat a million times. It's because if society accepts it, then you create a culture of sin, one that becomes pervasive throughout everything......dare I say Sodom & Gomorrah? They don't see themselves as violating the word of God, because they're trying to create a supposedly more Christian environment.

Right now, i don't see you as being very different from the hypocrites you're ranting on about.