Now that spanking is illegal check out this landmark (go to your room) case

[kahljorn]

I never said they should have their own psych ward, I just said that pissing her bed might be a good indication that she's CRAZY since crazy people usually have very bad control of their bodies. The articles make it seem like it's a bad thing and they were punishing her by forcing her to sleep in a pissy bed, but crazy people piss their beds ALOT.
I mean seriously, if you're the parent of a psychotic child and you were trying to take care of it on your own rather than send t hem to a psych ward this might be one thing you'd do. Obviously, alarm systems and cameras are a bit severe. Still, it's not like it would've been that much different at a psych ward. Psych wards smell like pee buddy.

I was grounded for a year and a half once, but the situations weren't as severe. Some of it, though, like no toys or books, or leaving my room (except for school) were pretty much the same. I never had timed restroom or strict eatting patterns to obey, though.

No, you're right, instillment of a deviant system wouldn't fuck up their mental faculties at all. Sociopaths are all created by loving parents, there's no common pattern of fucked up children coming from fucked up parents. You can argue mental faculties in alot of ways, but one of the ways of using your mental faculties is being able to tell what's right and wrong. It might not necessarily cause permanant mental damage, but there's definitley a lack of ethical development.
Do you think children really choose between different moral systems? They don't, they usually just accept whatever their parents/peers tell them -- more or less. That's why there's entire tribes of cannibals and bad people, and why you generally see cultures sharing similar values...
Also commiting crimes because you can't tell right from wrong (or were raised to just not care) is pretty similar to acting crazy because you're crazy and don't understand reality. Socially, and psychologically, it's a very similar problem.

[derrida]

Originally Posted by kahljorn

No, you're right, instillment of a deviant system wouldn't fuck up their mental faculties at all. Sociopaths are all created by loving parents, there's no common pattern of fucked up children coming from fucked up parents. You can argue mental faculties in alot of ways, but one of the ways of using your mental faculties is being able to tell what's right and wrong. It might not necessarily cause permanant mental damage, but there's definitley a lack of ethical development.
Do you think children really choose between different moral systems? They don't, they usually just accept whatever their parents/peers tell them -- more or less. That's why there's entire tribes of cannibals and bad people, and why you generally see cultures sharing similar values...
Also commiting crimes because you can't tell right from wrong (or were raised to just not care) is pretty similar to acting crazy because you're crazy and don't understand reality. Socially, and psychologically, it's a very similar problem.

You're being way too vague in your use of "fucked up, " so I'm not going to respond to your first paragraph in depth until you clarify your terms. Sociopaths can tell right from wrong. The kind of "fucked up" families they tend to come from are generally emotionally distant or outright abusive, neither of which you described in your example.

If a child is presented with two equally forceful moral systems, yeah, theyre gonna have to make some kind of choice. They will probably cry about it, as children do. Again, I wanna say something, but you aren't indicating whether you're using the word "bad" in a local or global sense.

That last part surprised me. I've seen you (might not have been you, though) rightfully take western medicine to task for proccupation with observable symptoms at the cost of identifying root causes. Don't you see how you have committed that same fallacy here?

[kahljorn]

Root causes, what is at the "Root" but the way you were raised to exist in the world you exist in? That, and developmental problems.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_role

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Differential_association

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_learning_theory

social learning theory also mentions social labeling which can also contribute to what I'm talking about.

[kahljorn]

ok here's some more stuff!

fucked up means fucked up! i don't see any need to explain it. Some people are just fucked up.
Sociopaths can't really tell right from wrong. Sociopaths are generally characterized as doing everything for themselves. This isn't ayn rand's god child, it's just an asshole who kicks people in the balls because they think it's funny. Thus, THEIR entertainment takes priveledge over other people's contentment, and... uh.. i don't know, that's usually the begining of "Evil". When people are willing to hurt other people for no reason other than for themselves, and not even in a justifiable way like self-defense.

So what's the "Root problem" for people who were born into a deviant family structure with deviant norms and behaviors? Tap dancing?

[Preechr]

I told you those people don't really exist.

Nobody's perfect, and everybody is fucked up at some point in their lives, even if they are lucky enough to have it happen where nobody can see it and no one is affected by it. We all go through stuff, and especially for children, there needs to be a firm reminder of where the correct path lies when it is abandoned for whatever reason.