Pakistan <3 martial law

[mburbank]

It does seem ironic that the way to fight fanatical extremism is by locking up pro democracy Lawyers and Judges and shutting down the press.

[KevinTheOmnivore]

Once again, there are two different discussions here. Max, if you're content to abandon the effort in Afghanistan, or at least suspend it, then you have an argument. But I have to listen every day to Leftists telling me about how we need to utilize more "realism" in our foreign policy...well this is realism. We have a strategic need in the region, and we're using an ally in the area to achieve it.

I know every issue has to have a Bush angle with you, but I'm still waiting on an alternative strategic idea from you on how to properly arm and supply our forces in Afghanistan. It's not just a "bombing campaign" like you suggested. Would you rather get cozy again with Uzbekistan? How about our friends the Chinese? There's civil unrest brewing in both of those nations too, so which would you like? Coke or Pepsi?

Musharraf has gone way too far. People are drawing the Shah of Iran parallel, but there are problems with that. Regardless, We should suspend his cash and threaten to cut him off entirely until he releases Bhutto. It's unacceptable that he is making these arrests. He gave in to rescheduling elections again, but he needs to remove the uniform and be kept away from the country's elections. (Which, btw, the Bush administration has been pushing for).

[mburbank]

Wait, you're ujnwilling to suspend our efforst in afghanistan, but you are willing to cut off his cash? Where to we disagree?

And Kevin, pure curiosity here, what are you talking about when you talk about listening to 'leftists'. This isn't the 1950's. If all you mean is left of center, okay, but whenever you say 'leftists' you sound like some old gaurd McCarthyite to me.

[KevinTheOmnivore]

I use Leftist to differentiate people from Left-of-center types and Liberals. I don't think some of the activist/blogger-type elements we're seeing today are genuinely Liberals, and I think they should be separated. For consistency, let's call them "progressives" so that you not think me a McCarthyite or something.

We disagree because you want to harp on and on about how wrong our policy is in Pakistan in the first place. It isn't. Foreign Policy is a collection of unfun choices, something a lot of presidents in the 20th Century, be them Democrats or Republicans, often learned the hard way. Strategically, if you supported the operation in Afghanistan (which I believe you did), it required a situation like this. Musharraf is abusing our partnership, and it's time to rein him in.

I think Musharraf has gone too far. But with all due respect to Scru, the main reason anybody here in the States cares about this issue is because of our strategic relationship with Musharraf. There are Russian forces in Georgia right now beating the shit out of anti-government protestors, and their government is also considering a state of emergency. How much press does that get? Not a whole lot.

So the lens we look through with Pakistan is how it alters our own goals. If the alliance with Musharraf was bad, well what would've been better? I've seen some advocating elections there, arguing that the Islamists are rather unpopular. I'm not so sure about that, perhaps Scru could enlighten us a bit. But to turn this into "omg, some war on terror! ha! Bush am i right!" seems silly to me.

[ScruU2wice]

I've probably read as much as you guys have, so I'm not any type of beacon for information on pakistani politics. I've actually completely ignored the workings of the "old country" until this mess started.

[Geggy]

Sorry Geggy, no more spam posts. - Kevin

[Geggy]

What are you talking about? How can it be spam if the link i posted was related to the matter? If we get clear answers as of what had happened on that day when the jihad movement who have allegedy performed terror attacks in attempt to assassinate bhutto, who is pro-democracy as well as pro-war on terror, we would get better understanding of musharraf's motives for declaring state of emergency in pakistan and throwing bhutto in jail. The investigation continues to be inadeguate because the pakistan government have continously blocked inquiry into the terro attacks. Its no surprise that its widely suspected that pakistan government and their security angency had involvement because of the sour relationship between bhutto and musharraf. musharraf is probably nothing but a hypocrite who use terror as a tool to expand power to imprison those deemed a threat to his throne.